Reverses with the Thoth deck

[HenryLee]

I've been going through a few books on the Thoth deck as well as reading anything that I can find on the web in my free-time and I've run across a few mentions about reversals. Apparently Crowley didn't support reversals but modern readers have been mixing reversals into the Thoth readings.

I was just wondering how you Thoth fans have been treating reversals...I generally don't riffle my cards so I don't get reversals, but I'm wondering if I'm missing something then. Just wondering what you all think!

Henry

 

[prudence]

I don't use reversals with my Thoth deck, but I do with other decks. I think I prefer reading without reversals. A tarot teacher I learned from had a great reason for only reading upright, she'd always say " I don't use reversals, Life is depressing enough!"
I don't seem to get incorrect or "overly positive" readings this way.

 

[temperlyne]

I never use reversals for any of my cards, including my thoth. I think the reversed meaning so to speak are already in the cards. I don't need to see them reversed to remind myself of the negative/opposite/shadow aspect. Besides I love the thoth cards so much, I just want to see them how they were intended to be seen; upright!

 

[Zephyros]

I never use revearsals. Why? I don't really know, I've never felt the need to, I guess. If a card is well or ill-dignified depends, to me, on the surrounding cards and its position.

Especially in the Thoth, where the back has the Rose Cross, it is never a question of whether the card is reveared or not. However, I can see how in other decks, where the back doesn't have a distict picture, like in the US Games RWS, revearsals are possible.

Myself, I just don't "see" it...

 

[Grigori]

I've just started reading with the Thoth, and this has been a thing I really noticed. I usually use RWS-style decks with reversals. The thoth I didn't because of tradition I guess, but mostly cause the backs don't reverse.

I've found the spreads I'm familar with don't loan themselves to using Dignities very well, and the lack of reversal together with that has really taken away a lot of my comfort and the sublties of a reading.

I've been thinking that some new spread types, better designed to work with Dignities will help fill the gap where previoulsy I relied on reversals. Maybe focusing on spreads with multiple cards in a single position in the way for me to go.

 

[prudence]

I've read somewhere in AT that Thoth is better with linear spreads due to the dignities thing.

 

[JulieG]

Hi HenryLee

I use Thoth too - but never use reversals with it (I do if reading with RWS).
The majority of people I've asked say they do not use reversals with Thoth either, and practically every book I have read on Thoth suggests NOT using reversals.
The deck is such that it has more than adequate capacity to provide the diversity of readings, that it does not require reversals for interpretation. I believe Crowley himself did not intend for reversals to be used with the Thoth deck and books I have read by his peers suggest the same.
If you get into the books about Thoth that also explain links to the Qabalah, you will see that the Thoth deck is supposed to adequately cover all aspects of life as it is: hence negating the need for reversals altogether.
One area of Tarot study (of great importance) which DOES bring into play the negative/positive card meanings is that of "dignities" - which some often mistake as strictly meaning reversals. "Dignities" relates to aspects of the cards such as the numerological, astrological and elemental attributes they have and how these affect the surrounding cards. Learning this helps you understand how cards interplay with eachother and therefore get a cleaer interpretation of the card and the entire spread.
For example, Cups relate to the element Water and Wands to Fire - generally fire and water do not get along and so that one aspect of those cards could be perceived as meaning they are "ill-dignified": which would put a negative spin on the card (as reversals are sometimes seen to do).
I find this a far more accurate and solid way of defining the positive and negative meanings of any card within a spread.
There are few books on dignities to be found (at least, I've had little success), but I do find this one helpful:

"Tarot Decoded: Understanding and Using Dignities and Correspondences" by Elizabeth Hazel (available on Amazon).

Crowley's fabulous "777" is filled with card aspects and attributes but is quite a complicated book (goes heavilly into Qabalah) and generally only for the advanced student. Nevertheless, I'd recommend a copy of it be in any Thoth readers library - along with his brilliant "Thoth" book itself.

Granted, dignities can be a tougher subject to learn than reversals, but is an essential part of advancing in Tarot interpreation.

This slightly older forum thread may also help:

http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=35222

Good luck with your Thoth deck.

 

[Lillie]

I don't do reversals, with the Thoth, or with any deck.

Upside down cards just look untidy. I don't like it.
If they come out upside down (which they shouldn't cos I never turn 'em) I just put them back the right way.

78 meanings is enough for anyone, especially someone with a brain as small as mine.

 

[thantifaxath]

reversals and dignities

I use reversals and dignities with my thoth deck , just broadens the scope for me..my intuition gets clouded by empathy at times so i need as many subtle shades of grey as possible to clarify whats intuition and whats empathy...see!

 

[anion-]

I don't read reversals, for any deck. Partially because I find it muddies up my readings, partially because there are enough "negative" cards in Tarot to represent those forces in readings.

Then there is the very practical consideration that most of my decks (and the Thoth) don't have a symetrical pattern on the reverse side. You can tell which cards are upright and which are reversed face down - so really, there isn't much point. Even people who don't read instinctively avoid drawing reversed cards if they can see them - which botches the reading in my veiw.