RWS & the public domain

tarotbear

Without even reading the article I can tell you right now that USG is run by lawyers and this is never going to go down without a fight, so anyone expecting to use the RWS 'royalty-free' will be in for a big surprise.
 

Chiriku

I've read that article (yes, it's very interesting) and tarotbear correctly divined its content from the subject matter alone. Thanks for posting.
 

benebell

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benebell

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Le Fanu

Ah but, but - yes - Pamela Colman Smith died in 1951 and as US Games know very well, 70 years have not yet lapsed since she died. It has to date been dated from the death of A.E Waite which I find odd as that was due to lapse in 2012 when at the outset they could have just cited 70 years as from Pixie's death and it would have been a bit more convincing.

As I posted elewhere (ETA: thank you gregory :heart:), a recent RWS copy/reproduction has been issued without the U.S Games copyright (The Game of Shadows Tarot named after the Sherlock Holmes movie for which it formed a part of the promotional material). I find this fact interesting and wonder whether it has been contested at all.

But they'll hang onto that copyright fiercely while they work at bagging the Thoth/Lady Frieda Harris copyright. I mean you would, wouldn't you.
 

benebell

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tarotbear

This is something that ought to be challenged. Where are our tarot activists? This is exactly why we need more powerful, cohesive organizations within the community.

Why? What does it get us if the Big Bad Ol' USG holds onto the copyright for a few more years? Or forever and a day? The deck is still out there at reasonable cost to anyone.

'Tarot Activists'? What - a Tarot Swat Team to break into Stu Kaplan's office and hold the Board of Directors hostage?

I daresay that if USG HAD NOT gotten the copyright for it that there probably would be no RWS deck available for the public.

I don't see why everyone is so friggin' RABID about USG and the copyright on the RWS.

My best 'example' - "Fiddler on the Roof" was produced in 1964 - 49 years ago. If you were to produce it right now for your theatre group, you will be required BY LAW and contract to put on your program first page that the original production (49 years ago) was written by so-and-so based on stories by Sholom Aleichem, Produced by Harold Prince, and directed and choreographed by Jerome Robbins. Although Prince is still alive (I think), everyone else is long dead. Why do you have to put the names of dead people on your program 49 years later? Because someone's lawyer created a contract with the royalty house, and if you don't include that information (which has a type size requirement) you will be fined for breaking your contract.

It's like saying "The Mona Lisa ia 400 years old - DiVinci is dead, so the image belongs to the public." Yeah. Right.
 

Hanno

It appears there is a solid legal argument that the deck published in 1909-1910 is in public domain in the US since 1985 at latest. USG hasn't disputed further this as per the below:
http://www.mysticgames.com/articles/2010/09/206/popular-1910-tarot-deck-copyright-status/

In the UK, there is also a strong argument that PCS being hired only and not co-author of the deck, it would put the + 70 years on AEW's death in 1942.

USG registered the name Rider-Waite (i.e excluding any reference to PCS' name) and for a long time they stated that their copyrights would expire at AEW's death + 70 years, not at PCS's death + 70 years. They obviously changed their position and now reference PCS as co-author to possibly get another few years. I wonder if their initial stance was in any way related to making their acquisition of the copyrights in 1971 any cheaper by not recognising PCS as co-author (there would have been presumably some legal descendants/family members). I found their change of stance quite fascinating...