Similarities Magician, Empress???

[Scarlotsmiles]

Hiya wise owls, I'm looking for ways in which the magician & empress are alike. I had the magician come up in the feelings position of how 'A' feels about 'B'. Having a narrow view of the magician I always see him as a player/trickster/decietful type. So when I had the empress as the clarifier I felt limited in my take on the card. Given the empress is clarifying & I'm trying to work out what the magician clarified by the empress could mean in relation to what A's feelings for B are I thought I'd try & get a clearer understanding of any similarities in the two cards. Or on how others may read them in this context.

 

[nisaba]

Except in a minority of decks where he is openly illustrated to be untrustworthy, I find no moral judgement on the Magician. He is a card of knowing one's own abilities, and using them to the fullest.

The Empress is about being grounded in the physical world, and using power discretely.

They are both about the use of power, and can have a positive relationship with each other.

 

[Thirteen]

"Creators"

Both "create." The Magician creates with airy words and ideas, the Empress with the physical world--like growing a garden, a child, or molding something out of clay.

They also share a desire to create that which has finesses or beauty or something more than just pragmatic usefulness. This isn't art for art's sake; what they're making is useful, but rather like architects, both the Magician and Empress want that useful item to also be "artful."

So though the Magician is quick and off the cuff, and the Empress takes her time, neither of them is sloppy when it comes to their creations. They make sure what they're making is complete and to their satisfaction.

 

[jenessa]

I had the magician come up in the feelings position of how 'A' feels about 'B'. Having a narrow view of the magician I always see him as a player/trickster/decietful type. So when I had the empress as the clarifier I felt limited in my take on the card.

Given the empress is clarifying & I'm trying to work out what the magician clarified by the empress could mean in relation to what A's feelings for B are I thought I'd try & get a clearer understanding of any similarities in the two cards.

Or on how others may read them in this context.

I agree with nisaba's take re: the "similarity" between these two cards relating to the concept of power.

However, having said that, what strikes me is the "difference" between these cards, in the sense that the Magician represents masculine sexual energy, whereas the Empress represents feminine fertility.

Further to which, in considering the difference between the two cards, they nonetheless complement each other, insofar as A may feel that B would make the perfect mother for his children. Or in otherwords, A's feelings for B (assuming A is a male), are more than purely sexual, in the sense that he'd like to plant his seed and otherwise have children with B.

& As far as using the similarities between the cards to understand A's feeling for B, keep in mind that the Magician is a very capable card, as is the Empress. Not to mention that the Empress is a card about nurturing. So perhaps A feels that they are capable of taking care of B.

 

[jenessa]

Both "create." The Magician creates with airy words and ideas, the Empress with the physical world--like growing a garden, a child, or molding something out of clay.

They also share a desire to create that which has finesses or beauty or something more than just pragmatic usefulness. This isn't art for art's sake; what they're making is useful, but rather like architects, both the Magician and Empress want that useful item to also be "artful."

So though the Magician is quick and off the cuff, and the Empress takes her time, neither of them is sloppy when it comes to their creations. They make sure what they're making is complete and to their satisfaction.

How wonderfully Insightful! As always you manage to speak volumns, albeit all very concisely.

 

[QueenPen]

In a complete sexy reading, the man thinks the woman is very creative and skilled in her, um, endeavors

 

[starrystarrynight]

Some other thoughts or possibilities...

On a different tangent, the Magician is often seen as a "son" archetype, while the Empress is seen as a "mother" archetype. So, maybe that is the connection the clarification was meant to accomplish. Perhaps, he either feels you mother him too much or he would like more mothering from you. (Maybe he has some mommy issues of some kind?)

Another thought that comes to me is that the Magician often comes up when a relationship is Internet-based, and with the Empress clarifying it, perhaps his feeling is that he thinks that stalls the relationship or makes it too difficult to pin down into actual reality (especially considering that the two cards weaken one another elementally, for the way I read.) But, admittedly, this is just something that I would consider if I had drawn this pair for you, so it might not spark anything in you.

 

[jenessa]

On a different tangent, the Magician is often seen as a "son" archetype, while the Empress is seen as a "mother" archetype.

Altho i'm aware that the Empress is viewed as a mother archetype, the Emperor as a father archetype, and the Sun @ times can be viewed as a child, I have NEVER come across the Magician as a son archetype.

Further to which, if the Magician could be viewed this way, then what Major Arcana card would represent a daughter archetype?

 

[starrystarrynight]

Further to which, if the Magician could be viewed this way, then what Major Arcana card would represent a daughter archetype?

High Priestess. I've also seen in various different resources that this pair (Magician and High Priestess) can allude to brother/sister archetypes. Not always, of course...but if a reader has the possibility in his arsenal, and it fits, then it may be something to consider in a reading.

I don't know if it fits here, as I said...but just posted it to give the OP the option to think about its possibilities in her situation.

 

[jenessa]

I've also seen in various different resources that this pair (Magician and High Priestess) can allude to brother/sister archetypes. Not always, of course...but if a reader has the possibility in his arsenal, and it fits, then it may be something to consider in a reading.

I'm curious what resources you are referring to? & Do you know, if these archetypes have been discussed at AT? Or do you know of a deck where the creator has assigned this type of meaning to the cards?

I can't believe i've never come across either of these major arcana archetypes, tho i've been studying tarot for upwards of 13 yrs. Indeed, i'm not sure that i comprehend how these types of associations were arrived at. Or rather should I say, i'd like to know more about the thinking that lead to these types of associations.

I do however get how Empress could be viewed as mother archetype, and Emperor as father, given that the card qualities & the concepts embodied by these cards support these types of associations. Whereas, i'm not really seeing the connection between the traditional card meanings for Magician, HP, and the concept of son or daughter.