Tarot for Writers Certification

[Nevada]

It's a sure money-maker for the person offering the course, if she gets people to pay, but I call it a course only reluctantly. For the person who eventually gets certified, they'll have paid $75 to $125 (at the most advanced level), have done a lot of writing, and have a certificate of questionable value. In fact, IMO, not really any value.

If one wants to be a writer, about Tarot or anything else, I'd recommend taking some college level writing courses, joining a good critique group, and getting out there and submitting work.

Writers are always learning. But in certain types of writing, such as fiction and poetry, making a living at it is so iffy that I'm leery of any program that wants money from people learning to be writers -- and they are all over the place!

What are her qualifications? Is certification guaranteed, if you pay, regardless of the quality of your work or whether your writing improves in some way from doing the course? If so, how can her course help one become a better writer? One could do all that writing practice on one's own and not pay anyone. What do you learn from it? In any decent writing course I've taken, there's an instructor who instructs and critiques your work (sometimes the entire class critiques), and there's a lot to be gained from all three -- the instruction, the writing, and the critique.

Where's the learning in this course beyond practice?

Would you pay $25 for a blank journal? Does she provide the journal?

This reminds me of those little blog "awards" we bloggers give each other now and then. They're really gestures of friendship with other bloggers more than anything. Basically meaningless -- and we don't pay for them. If some fellow blogger said he'd give me a blogging award if I paid him -- I'd laugh.

 

[Grizabella]

She goes on to say:

Remember, your work will not be graded or assessed, but your writing will be reviewed to ensure that it meets "certification guidelines". So nobody is going to assess whether we really do a good job with our Tarot knowledge, but it will be reviewd to ensure it meets certification guidelines---translated, that means if you pay the money, you get the piece of paper.

Honestly, I guess you can't fault the lady for trying to think of clever ways to make her living. The economy is really tough right now. I have all her Tarot books and I like her as an author.

Edited severely for political correctness and politeness.

But I still don't like this.

 

[motsa]

she isn't very likely to read what you submit and then say, "OOOPSIE, here's your money back. You didn't pass." If you could submit your stuff and then pay the money once accepted, it would be better.

I've never seen a genuine certification system that allowed you to not pay if you didn't pass. You pay to sit the exam (or whatever) and don't get a refund if your skills aren't up to snuff. Mind you, I'm not saying that this falls into that same category.

Well, probably it's stored in her computer or on a disc anyway, so no need for a shredder. It would cost too much to print and store everything on paper.

I believe she's talking about the paper copies people are supposed to send in.

 

[Grizabella]

True, I suppose it could mean paper copies, but I didn't see where it said to send a paper copy of anything. And it says "remember, your work will not be graded or assessed, meaning nobody is going to "assess" whether or not it meets any criteria of being anything except a paying customer----except that you sent in the money----which falls under "certification guidelines".

The definition of the verb "assess" is to judge the worth or importance of .

OK coming back to grant you that she did give a snail mail address to send a paper copy of your work to.

Edited to remove sarcasm.

 

[motsa]

I agree with you about it essentially just certifying that you paid your money and nothing else. My comment was about the general concept of not paying for a certification if you don't pass (whatever it is you're trying to pass and whatever counts as "passing"). In a vetted certification process, the expenses are in the judging/grading, not the actual certification result so you should pay before you know if you pass. I realize that that doesn't really apply to this one -- it was just a comment about that one specific comment in one of your posts, not about your very valid arguments.

 

[Grizabella]

I just feel like she's trying to capitalize on Tarot readers, lots of us who have bought her books, as though she thinks we're not quite as smart as she is, that we'd go for this without seeing right through it. I can't help feeling a little insulted by that.

Edited, but this statement is how I actually feel, which I'm entitled to, and I'm not going to remove it. It's just a statement of how this makes me feel, not an insult or personal attack on Corrinne.

 

[Nevada]

It struck me the wrong way because, as a writer and subscriber to various writers' publications through the years, I think I've seen every way in which wannabe writers can get taken advantage of. (I'm sure there will be a new way, by the time I finish writing this post.)

There is an online resource for writers (perhaps just for writers in the US, I'm not sure) that helps sift through some of the chaff: Preditors & Editors (TM - the creative spelling in the name is, I believe, for trademark purposes). They even have a page listing workshops: http://www.anotherealm.com/prededitors/pubwork.htm. I think its original purpose was to help fiction writers, but I'm sure it has some crossover usefulness in the nonfiction realm. Unfortunately even they are subject to providing old, dead links and not being able to update the information as often as one would hope. But it's one additional source. I recommend that anyone seriously thinking about writing, and especially about investing money in their writing future, become a little familiar with and bookmark that site, and the reasons they give for recommending or not recommending various resources. Or find a professional organization -- many accept associate members before publication -- that offers writing workshops. Bellaonline has a listing of some, here: http://www.bellaonline.com/articles/art2583.asp.

And no, I'm not calling Corrine Kenner a predator. No, no, no! I respect her place in the world of Tarot. I think maybe she didn't consider carefully exactly what she's offering in return for the money in her certification program. A workshop -- on or offline -- that provides some meat, some real instruction and critique in writing about Tarot, would not be a bad bargain at those prices. Maybe she needs to make some adjustments, or clarify what she's offering and why it might be of value.

 

[CorrineKenner]

I've read through the posts on this board, and against my better judgment, I'll just wade in with my side of the story.

I designed this certification program after several members of my Tarot for Writers Meetup group asked me to. I didn't design it as some sort of creepy money-making scheme. I didn't design it to become some sort of profit mill. I didn't design it to capitalize on other tarot readers, or because I think I'm smarter than everyone else -- and frankly, I'm offended by those suggestions.

You know, if I wanted to come up with a clever way to make a living, it wouldn't be through tarot. Here's the actual truth: I make about $1 for every copy of "Tarot for Writers" that gets sold, and anywhere from $10 to $20 on weekends when I hold my Saturday-morning Tarot for Writers workshops. In point of fact, I don't make a living through tarot -- but I do earn a comfortable living through the software business that my husband and I own together. Tarot is my hobby, my passion, and my avocation, but in my professional life I write technical manuals and software marketing materials, and my day job subsidizes all of my tarot work. I wish we could just put the idea that I'm some sort of money-grubbing racketeer to bed. It's untrue, and it's insulting.

Nevada asked a number of questions, and I'll answer them:

Q: What are her qualifications?

A: I've been a professional writer since 1982. Before I got into tarot, I was a newspaper reporter and editor. I've also worked as a magazine and book editor. I've written nine books, and I'm working on four more. I know how to write -- and more importantly, I know what it's like to be a writer. In addition to my certification as a tarot master, Nevada asked about my accredited qualifications. Here's that answer: I have a bachelor's degree in philosophy, which dovetails with the principles of tarot, but also afforded me some formal training in logic and analysis.

Q: Is certification guaranteed, if you pay, regardless of the quality of your work or whether your writing improves in some way from doing the course?

A: Yes, certification is guaranteed IF you do the work -- which means, if you write about every card in the deck. Trust me, it's easier said than done.

Let me tell you about the first "tarot work" I ever did. When U.S. Games bought my self-published "Edible Tarot" to turn into the "Epicurean Tarot," they wanted me to come up with a little white booklet to accompany the deck. It wasn't too hard for me to write a few paragraphs about all of the Major Arcana cards -- or, at least, the Major Arcana cards that I liked. But as I started working my way through all the Minors, I grew increasingly tired and frustrated.

At one point, I sat down on the floor with all my cards and notes spread out around me, and just about started to cry. The job seemed overwhelming. Impossible. I would have quit, if someone wasn't waiting for me to finish ... and by the time I really did finish it, I knew that I could keep going, and write more, and more, and more.

That's the experience and encouragement I can offer other writers through the Tarot for Writers certification program, and that's why I'm putting myself out there.

Q: If so, how can her course help one become a better writer?

A: The very act of writing makes one a better writer.

Q: One could do all that writing practice on one's own and not pay anyone.

A: Yes. One could. Too many people, however, don't have the incentive or the discipline to follow through on their writing dreams. My certification program offers them one route to developing -- and finishing -- a writing project based on tarot. It's an option that some people appreciate and want to pursue.

Nevada also remarked that a "workshop -- on or offline -- that provides some meat, some real instruction and critique in writing about Tarot, would not be a bad bargain at those prices."

Personally, I think instruction and critique would be a tremendous bargain at those prices! I actually charge a lot more for both services -- but I think the prices I set for certification are fair. It probably works out to about $1 a minute for the time I'll spend reviewing people's submissions -- which is the minimum most tarot readers charge for a reading, by the way.

More importantly, someone who invests $25 in basic certification will have a definite investment in actually sitting down to write a paragraph about every card. Someone who invests $50 to develop poetry or full-length pages of text will have even more investment in the process. I explain that on the Tarot for Writers website.

Grizabella griped about the intellectual property notice I included on the program page. Let me explain how that came about: every now and then, someone from the Tarot for Writers group will send me a story or a poem they've written based on the cards. Some want me to share them with other writers. Some want me to keep them private. I wanted to make it possible for people to promote their work, if that's their goal, or to keep it confidential. It's just that simple.

Grizabella, however, has decided to spin it into something smarmy. "What I kind of object to, though, and what I suspected from the start, is that she's probably using this as a means to do some research/build another book or books with the help of those who read and aspire to write, but instead of asking you to donate to the project for free, she wants to make some money from the effort without actually coming right out and saying she's wanting you to pay for the privilege."

I hate to burst Grizabella's conspiracy-theory bubble, but that's not true. It's merely a figment of Grizabella's fevered imagination.

You know, the only people in this forum who've come close to understanding this program are Alpha-Omega and Myrrha.

Alpha-Omega wrote, "I like this style. It is a creative approach to certification. There are no tests of "standardized rules" its open to you and what you want to write and feel about the cards."

That's exactly right! It's not my job to tell other writers what to write, or how to write it. I respect people more than that.

Myrrha wrote, "It seems like the value is in motivation to do the studying and writing rather than in impressing anyone with your certification. Writing a poem (or short essay) on each of 78 cards is a long haul and it might help to have this kind of structure."

Yes, it is a long haul. I've made the trip many times, though, and I'm willing to act as a guide to anyone who wants to follow me. If my program isn't for you, it's not for you -- but lay off the personal attacks, please.

 

[moderndayruth]

You know, the only people in this forum who've come close to understanding this program are Alpha-Omega and Myrrha.

Corrine, i personally appreciate very much that you explained your views of the certification process, but i suppose the proper wording would be that Alpha-Omega and Myrrha came close to understanding the program as you personally see it, which of course does not oblige the rest of us to share the suggested view.

 

[Scion]

I designed this certification program after several members of my Tarot for Writers Meetup group asked me to. I didn't design it as some sort of creepy money-making scheme. I didn't design it to become some sort of profit mill. I didn't design it to capitalize on other tarot readers, or because I think I'm smarter than everyone else -- and frankly, I'm offended by those suggestions. ...
If my program isn't for you, it's not for you -- but lay off the personal attacks, please.

Hey Corrine,

A couple things, obviously...

You and I see Tarot very differently. You and I see writing very differently. That's sort of a given, and we both know that because we've talked about it at several points. What we do with Tarot and what we do with writing doesn't really overlap, so my perspective is bound to differ on this one.

I won't speak for anyone else, but I wasn't attacking you. In fact I said at least twice, explicitly, that I couldn't understand your logic precisely because I think of you as a friend and I couldn't imagine what you had intended... so I appreciate you explaining some of it to me. I am however disturbed by this "certification" option you've made available, because it seems nonsensical and creepy to me. Not to everyone, obviously, but to me. I can understand why that would upset you, but I'm afraid I don't accept the "we all could use a pat on the back" argument. And people pointing out that you're stretching the word certification isn't insulting, it's factual. Id argue that those weren't actually personal attacks as much as consternation at some explicit language mangling that unwittingly struck several raw nerves.

The closest definition of Certification I can find that remains applicable to what you're offering is: "to award a certificate to (a person) attesting to the completion of a course of study or the passing of a qualifying examination." Of course, these students are not required to pass an examination, nor are they completing a course of study. They are producing a certain predetermined amount of writing without any assessment. Again I will point out that what you are offering is not certification... it is coaching. This is the kernel of my discomfort with this whole enterprise. The "certificate" you are presenting is literally a pat on the back for completing 78 paragraphs or pages, nothing more. But a friendly pat doesn't certify anything.

As I said in my post above, your offer is made to people too lazy or unfocused to grind out pages on their own. Harsh but true, full stop. You have said as much above. That isn't a judgment of their ability, merely their dedication and motivation. Why is that wrong? People hire personal trainers and personal shoppers for the same reason: to force themselves to complete unwelcome tasks. But that is not certification. To use the word is a deliberate misdirection because it implies some kind of valuation and review. And that is why people are responding negatively and why they have questioned your motives. The usage makes it sound more venal than you'd intended, and that word choice was yours. And as Moderndayruth points out, the fact that people like the idea of getting praise for next-to-nothing isn't exactly a winning argument.

I AM surprised that you're offering this, and even more so that I know that it was at the urging of students. I can think of 15 ways you could have channeled that request differently and I bet you can think of more. Why not call it coaching? Why offer a meaningless piece of paper which undermines not only the value of real critical review but ALL pieces of certification? Why charge for it at all? If a show of commitment were required, a fee is a strange choice. That's not to say that you're getting rich $25 at a time, but rather that fee-based certification already has a nasty reputation. Why get on that wagon? Are these would-be writers really that slack and unwilling to knuckle down? In my experience success has much more to do with tenacity than talent... so already I'd say they're in for a bumpy road.

I just don't follow the logic. If you'd called it coaching I think I could grok it, but it is manifestly NOT certification of anything; you state explicitly that there is no assessment. Perhaps I just don't see it as you do, but I don't think I ever would or could. I do a LOT Of things for love, but I still don't see the soudndness of this offer. I take writing seriously... With deadly, ruthless gravity. As much as I love it, I have literally bent myself to it for decades and have "been mincemeat these several years" in its pursuit. I would never offer indiscriminate encouragement blindly, let alone for a fee, however nominal. I'm just not wired that way. I don't believe in quick fixes or universal praise. All writing is not equal. Learning to write well isn't just achieved by writing in an uncritical vacuum. People shouldn't feel proud of themselves until they've actually ACCOMPLISHED something. There is something fundamentally unpleasant to me about patting would-be amateurs on the back by way of encouragement because frankly I think it takes advantage of their hope and buttresses their lassitude. But that's me; I'm cruel and pragmatic that way. I think anything that supports laziness or inattention is dangerous. I think that great writing and its pursuit are precious and worthy of devotion. I also believe in hope and encouragement, but not the kinds that are cheaply won.

The fact is, even if you were insulted by my post above, I spoke nothing but truth. You are doing exactly what I described. In realistic terms, you are providing passive coaching for a fee, establishing an artificial deadline for unmotivated amateurs and then praising them for completing a limited, predetermined volume of writing that is completely unreviewed. Not to rain on any parades, but you and I both know how little that is by way of expectation and how unrelated that accomplishment is to actually seeing work in print or in production... Some people might feel like writing 78 paragraphs or pages or stories is an achievement; I wouldn't. I know better. If your position is that merely by writing ANYTHING they are somehow improved, I s'pose you're right, but we stop praising people every time they take a step as soon as they're out of diapers. I could just as easily hand each of my writing students a five dollar bill and tell them that they can now tell people they are professional writers because they've been paid. And that would make people mad too, because it would be insulting on my part.

Now, I'm just some schmuck who writes for a living. My opinion is only mine. But I have a dictionary here that says that what you are offering barely borders on anything resembling certification. The thing is, I understand why you're upset, but I don't think any of the criticisms were unfair because you are using the word certification incorrectly. That isn't an opinion, that is a fact. Then again, if you are planning on handing out a certificate that says "I have written 78 paragraphs of uncritiqued prose" I don't think many people will be handing over cash for the privelege of displaying it, because that is the kind of honesty for which people won't pay.

Namaste, Corrine. I wish you would consider renaming this, though I imagine the very students who asked for it will fight the change for the abovementioned reasons. I know that you will follow your bliss on this and do whatever you think is right, but I hope you'll take a moment and try to see why a lot of other people might not find it so.

Scion