"The direct descendant" of the Thoth?

Abrac

I agree, Case was earlier than Hurtak. So either Hurtak came up with it on his own or got it from Case.

Following up on what smw said, I see now on their website it's explained clearly where the idea came from.
 

Barleywine

Sort of...

If you follow the Path of Initiation from Malkuth up to Tiphareth on the Tree of Life you will notice that all the Sephiroth link up with each other, without any need for extra paths. But progress to Geburah and something different occurs. Although a path can be traced from Geburah to Malkuth, and from Geburah to Yesod via existing paths, there is the theoretical possibility of a Hidden Path directly connecting those spheres.

But note that this theoretical possibility isn't even relevant until one has attained to Geburah. And even then there is only the potential for the opening of two new Paths. At least in theory....

This from Wang:

"Actually, the Secret Paths are nothing more than the connection of every Sephira to every other Sephira (Figure 8 [posted above]), suggesting that it is possible to move directly from any form of consciousness to any other. This theory is a mitigation of the idea implied in the usual Tree of Life diagram, that we must pass through one Sephira before we encounter another. The concept of Secret Paths definitely expands the possibilities of the Tree. It also allows us to see certian relationships which would not be obvious otherwise. . ."

Mitigate against the "gates" and the psychic safeguards? Yeah, that sounds like a good idea. Did you ever hear a song by the Holy Modal Rounders called "If You Wanna Be a Bird"? (I think it may have been featured in the movie Easy Rider.) It makes me think of the mental state you might wind up in if you take indiscriminate advantage of this "mitigation."
 

ravenest

Wang here highlights a common misconception .... that the Sephirothic arrangement needs to be linear ... that the 'Lightning Flash' is an overruling pattern .... that the Sephiroth HAVE to be in that order, that the 2 D representation of the ToL is somehow more than that. But this should be there regardless of 'secret paths' leading one to that conclusion or not.

All sephiroth exist at once, of course. Consciousness can pass from one 'trance' to another without needing to pass through any other one first .... There are many pathways around the tree aside from the lightning flash (up or down) ... what the heck is the middle pillar exercise for !

Its like grades levels and initiations being set out in a lineal system that one progressively follows .

Well folks ..... life aint like that ... these are maps and representations. People can have experience in or understanding of levels above ones that they might struggle with, and the opposite or variations with others. Of course you are SUPPOSED to learn to crawl before walking and ride you bike before you zoom down the hill no hands .... but sometimes life rearranges things its own way.

I have found that the ToL is an impractical map for personal psychological astrology ... it just doesnt work with Mars 'up there' ... it does work for the function the ToL describes, but not for psychology ... Mars has to 'drop down' with the other 'inner personal planets' to interact with Venus Mercury Moon (one way of comprehending ' The Fall ' ).


This seems more easily understood with a spherical kabbalah . If I could post pics here, you could easily see the ToL pattern , in its 'one node' generating all the others around it into a spherical matrix ... some of you have probably aleady
 

Samweiss

Sort of...

If you follow the Path of Initiation from Malkuth up to Tiphareth on the Tree of Life you will notice that all the Sephiroth link up with each other, without any need for extra paths. But progress to Geburah and something different occurs. Although a path can be traced from Geburah to Malkuth, and from Geburah to Yesod via existing paths, there is the theoretical possibility of a Hidden Path directly connecting those spheres.

But note that this theoretical possibility isn't even relevant until one has attained to Geburah. And even then there is only the potential for the opening of two new Paths. At least in theory....

Ok. Thanks for clearing that up.

That's a different kettle of fish altogether.

Yes, I see now. After quick googling I noticed that Grant's secret path's actually refer to the Qlippoth.
 

Naomi Ningishzidda

Re: "Young men in the USA and not women." Well during the old Abrahadabra Forums which had 10K members and a ridiculous 16 million hits per month and was sort of this...broad...occult forum, a sandbox, with some sections on Mutational Alchemy, as the admin/project advisor I would run analysis on who was reading what and who was "getting it" so to speak. Mutational Alchemy is not for everyone, but it does appear that about 98% of our most attentive audience was men between the ages of 25 and 45, specifically INTJ or INTP personality types. Because we're aiming at 100-300 years from now for the continued development of Mutational Alchemy it made the most sense to appeal to that audience which can live for another 50 years. I can live about another 60 years. It's a practical consideration - and the rate of women on the forum was less than 1% - I could count them on my hand. Depressing stats but there it is. There are some things we can adjust and some things we cannot. In Mutational Alchemy there is some leeway for interpretation but not much. I know what the problem is with the women. I just can't fix it. This affects some of our considerations but nothing beyond where to advertise and what to focus on artistically.

Re: James Hurtaak There is a diagram by James Hurtak in another book, it's super small and it's the only one our former forum members could find in nearly a year of discussion back in 2008. I do not know a single thing about him and he never returned my letters asking about the diagram.

Here is a copy (this one is only $500) and I am told it is in here, but I can't check personally

http://www.amazon.com/Sephiroth-Enoch-Teachings-Fifth-Study/dp/B001JBIDAS


I can't begin to thank you enough for finding those diagrams Barleywine. Now no one can say we're just making this up entirely, obviously even Crowley thought it was worth examining at least partially. I couldn't ask for a better source, my god blessed heavenly father! The pedigree of the Hidden Diamond is critically important to my work in compiling Mutational Alchemy and to the discussion on it, and it has been a very frustrating experience trying to build a historical record for it. It says it's in an edition of 777 by Neptune Press. Why would it be left out in later editions? That makes me so angry. I have a copy of 777 right here and it is not in it. That is so bizarre.

You may think that what we are doing is mere experimentation, but it is not. There will always be exactly 16 paths not one more not one less. I used to create systems out of thin air, and interpret things as I pleased, and did all of the things a chaos magician might do when they are very young. But none of it compared to the power inherent in the lineage of the great minds of the occult. When proper attention is given to the alchemy of syncreticism and the art is respected, you get something quite unlike flinging dookum at at an ookin wall so to speak.

If and when one can accept m1thr0s's model of the tree being in the star, Abrahadabra (and not the other way around as Crowley put it) and then you accept the hidden diamond as a hidden property of the tree of life, not only crossing but maintaining Da'ath and carrying the property of the 16 paired binary pentagrammal structures (the Court cards) then you are left with a BRIDGE to the STAR. Note there are also FIVE unicursal hexagrams to go along with those 16 pentagrammal structures when you have the Hidden Diamond in its entirety. m1thr0s has given you the proofs all you have to do is look at them.


I ordered a 1st edition of the Neptune Press 777 for the archives. We are both deliriously happy. Nearly TEN years of searching and hardly anything out there, and it was in 777 all along.

I can't help but feel there is another book out there earlier - with all the scattered nature of Crowley's books and the thefts that occurred. Crowley doesn't reveal his sources in a lot of his writings, even where those claims are very bold.
 

Barleywine

You may think that what we are doing is mere experimentation, but it is not. There will always be exactly 16 paths not one more not one less. I used to create systems out of thin air, and interpret things as I pleased, and did all of the things a chaos magician might do when they are very young. But none of it compared to the power inherent in the lineage of the great minds of the occult. When proper attention is given to the alchemy of syncreticism and the art is respected, you get something quite unlike flinging dookum at at an ookin wall so to speak.

If and when one can accept m1thr0s's model of the tree being in the star, Abrahadabra (and not the other way around as Crowley put it) and then you accept the hidden diamond as a hidden property of the tree of life, not only crossing but maintaining Da'ath and carrying the property of the 16 binary pentagrammal structures (the Court cards) then you are left with a BRIDGE to the STAR. Note there are also FIVE unicursal hexagrams to go along with those 16 pentagrammal structures when you have the Hidden Diamond in its entirety. m1thr0s has given you the proofs all you have to do is look at them.


I ordered a 1st edition of the Neptune Press 777 for the archives. We are both deliriously happy. Nearly TEN years of searching and hardly anything out there, and it was in 777 all along.

I can't help but feel there is another book out there earlier - with all the scattered nature of Crowley's books and the thefts that occurred. Crowley doesn't reveal his sources in a lot of his writings, even where those claims are very bold.

What fascinates me about all of this, in the final analysis and given my penchant for treating the Tree of Life (primarily the Sepiroth, but that's not ironclad) as an "infinitely expandable filing cabinet," is the thought of pinning the disparate systems to the Tree and then playing with the multi-layered correspondences to see if I can make them mesh in a logical and useful way. I've been working with the tarot, geomancy and the I Ching for a very long time, but never tried linking and ordering their components in accordance with any external model not their own (except astrology, of course). This has great potential to produce a 3D model, which could expose all kinds of unexpected cross-connections that elude linear thinking. I'm a big fan of esoteric syncretism, so this will be fun (if you like moving mental "sticky notes" around on a theoretical white-board), and hopefully instructive! I strongly suspect it won't be do-able to my complete satisfaction, but it will be entertaining to try.

As far as another source book, I have many but not all of Crowley's major works and a number of his smaller ones; I skimmed through all of them very quickly today but didn't find anything more than what I mentioned above. My brother has a full set of Crowley's Equinox periodical (where some of Crowley's earlier work appeared first), reprinted in hardcover by Samuel Weiser back in the 1970s, and I'll take a stroll (more like a "wallow," I guess) through that the next time I see him.
 

bonebeach

"I know what the problem is with the women"?
 

ravenest

So do I ?

Not enough good men around .

Anyway ... on to 777 ( and BoT ) attributions

Naomi , there are many versions of both books . Last year I was posting about court cards being attributed to constellations and not signs and as a back up to this I cited some cards so listed in BoT .

Also, to my disappointment , many copies of 777 do not carry the full appendix ! Horror!

I was challenged on it so I went to a site to find it and post the reference. It wasn't in the one's on line , so that appeared a bit weak, so instead I had to reference my hard copy, which I have had a looooong time. Michael Sternback ( I think it was ) looked for it in his book on that page and said it wasnt there.

But it is in mine. I gave the book edition, and ours are slightly different. I think someone else said they had my copy and confirmed it .

It might just be a simple omission, not needed nowadays ... or it might change the whole context of astrological (GD style) to the tarot ... and open the question of what sort of astrology is Thoth using .

Basically moot questions nowadays. < shrug >
 

mithros

getting there first...

...almost never amounts to getting there the best. I've heard it said numerous times that Eliphas Levi was the first to assign the 22 hebrew letters to the 22 manifest paths, and yet his alignment was overwhelmingly rejected by the Golden Dawn. The syncretic path demands routine overhaul as a matter of keeping pace with the worlds' store of knowledge itself. So while it is important that we sort out the originators of bold ideas insofar as this may be doable, it is not half so important as keeping pace with the greater body of related wisdom as a whole. We are getting very close to being able to accomplish things magickally that have only ever existed as a romantic wish-list in times gone by. To me, that is where the real excitement resides and skeptical syncretism is the path that takes us there.
 

Barleywine

I was challenged on it so I went to a site to find it and post the reference. It wasn't in the one's on line , so that appeared a bit weak, so instead I had to reference my hard copy, which I have had a looooong time. Michael Sternback ( I think it was ) looked for it in his book on that page and said it wasnt there.

But it is in mine. I gave the book edition, and ours are slightly different. I think someone else said they had my copy and confirmed it .

It might just be a simple omission, not needed nowadays ... or it might change the whole context of astrological (GD style) to the tarot ... and open the question of what sort of astrology is Thoth using .

My copy, originally published by Weiser in 1973 and several times since, does have a rather indistinct diagram with the additonal paths on page xxvii of the preface to 777 Revised, "A Reprint of 777 With Much Additional Matter By The Late Aleister Crowley." A quick skim of the text didn't turn up any descriptive information (I admit it's been a long time since I tried to actually read it in any kind of linear fashion). The reference under the diagram is to Column XII of the Tables of Correspondences, but that appears to list only the "visible" paths. The asterisk at the head of the column leads to a note on page 140 that looks remarkably like the "structural" information in Paul Foster Case's course material, and circles back around to "figure, p. xxvii." This seems to reinforce Case as the original source, but that's strictly a guess since I don't know the publishing order for the two documents, given that 777 has changed over time and my BOTA course material isn't copyright-dated.