The Sun/Le Soleil - Contrasting the Dodal and Conver

[Pen]

Bee, I'd have to check which ones, but I have a feeling that they're not upside down on all the TdM decks.

I found the woodcut a short time ago, and the drops seemed significant in relation to the biblical story of the Visitation of Mary with Elizabeth, so I looked for an art ref. to back up that idea. Interesting...

Pen

 

[Pen]

Staying with the older TdMs, as far as I can see from Kaplan's E of T Vol 1, the Johannes Pelagius Mayer Tarot (c.1750) has droplets with their curved ends away from the sun. The Jacques Vieville has some oval ones too, and some seem pointed at both ends.

http://www.tarot-history.com/Jacques-Vieville/images/originaux/19.jpg

 

[Bernice]

Hi Pen

I have wondered before about the details on these very early decks. We (...me) examine them so minutely and then ponder if they carry special meanings... I'm beginning to think that looking too closely may be a bit like 'not seeing the wood for the trees'. (But I can't help it! The images fascinate me.)

Maybe the droplets, regardless of their shapes, are just indications of some spiritual or natural 'influence' - like a halo.

Bee

 

[Moonbow]

I think its time for some more comparisons...

This thread's original intention was to show differences and similarities between the Dodal and Conver decks, and therefore the TdM I and TdM II types. But its also a great exercise to compare other cards and decks to help us categorise them and see the similarities and differences, as le pendu has shown. So here is the Vieville (most definitely frowning)!

We can see from this card that the numbering was added after the image, again showing that the Vieville was first designed without numbering.

 

[Luminosa]

Hi Moonbow,

What is TdM I and TdM II?

Luminosa

 

[Moonbow]

An interesting exercise is to also compare the Dodal and Payen. Unfortunately I don't have a colour scan of the 1743 Payen (if anyone would like to help out..) So here is the black and white 1713 image.

Dodal........................................................Payen

........

Notice how in the Payen the feet are not obstructed by the title.

 

[Moonbow]

Hi Moonbow,

What is TdM I and TdM II?

Luminosa

Hi Luminosa,

The best explanation is given on the following thread, although its written about many times in these forums:

TdM I and TdM II

 

[Milfoil]

Forgive me for being such a novice here but are the two people possibly Adam and Eve after the expulsion from the Garden of Eden (wall behind)? I keep looking at the 'drops' and they don't make much sense to me as droplets unless it is God's grace being taken back.

This is my first toe dip into the Marseille (yes I am getting round to it finally Greg) so please, be gentle.

 

[euripides]

Castor and Pollux are often represented with horses....

 

[kwaw]

Xix

As Gemini they may be associated with Castor and Pollux, Romulus and Remus, Hercules and Apollo, Hermes and Apollo, Jesus and John the baptist (and by association the summer and winter solstice)...

In the nineteenth year
of Herod's rule,
under the Roman Gemini,
the Light of the World
was crucified.​