What else?!

[moderndayruth]

Are you trying to objectively determine what Crowley was like? Or are you exploring your own thoughts and feelings about Crowley with this reading. I would have thought the latter was a more appropriate use of Tarot.

Yes! That of course. Honestly, i don't think i personally can have an objective opinion of such a figure - i don't think i (or anyone) can see the big picture here, so this is the best i can do to sort out my own thoughts and impressions.
Biographies... well, yes, certainly - but you know, those are also always down to one's personal perception.
I've read some biographies of some extraordinary people i got to work with during some very challenging times here in Balkans (not war criminals of course! ),
and honestly - they don't do them much justice... people are usually far more complex, more ambivalent, less decisive and resolute and more driven by circumstances and chances then described.

Btw, all of your posts are really appreciated - i don't know why is it that you think there is such a high probability of misunderstanding your intent.

 

[moderndayruth]

I am appreciating this thread from some distance, since I am an unrepentent combinationist who looks to myriad decks and symphonies and poems and trees for some inspiration.

To myself, a called you a poet...

(I teach world literature and world religions.)

... even before having read this sentence!

But this statement really beautifully and truly gets at the distiction between Self-Will and willfulness. Emerson's "Self-Reliance" essay and Whitman"s poem "Song of Myself" are getting at the same core truth. If it's true it's true for you and me and everyone. But just how the "New Aeon" and the "Do what thou wilt" combine is the main mystery to me. Is the former the result of the latter? Thanks to Aeon418 and moderndayruth for their searching and discovering. Upward and on.

For what i feel , and what Le Fanu points from materials he reads - A. Crowley interwinds Art with Magic.
Honestly, that's how i see it. An artist - s/he takes the darkest of her emotions, the lowest, most negative ones and tries to make something of them, to give them meaning if nothing else.
I think magic is about being a co-Creator in the "Let there be light" story; you take your share of Darkness and transform it into the Light.
My forth book is in print right now, its collection of poetry - and its yet another result of my everlasting fascination with the subject...

Here is the title poem:
The Devil
(An autobiography)

Do you not know me?

I am your adversary in this tale:
that arrogant voice born of doubt
and fostered by fear.

I dwell in the constant storm
of your uncertainty,
sprouting in darkness,
fed by your fury
and drinking up your pain
until you stumble and fall.

Still you dismiss me with a smile,
denying my existence
as I bury you alive.
copyright © 2011 Lena Ruth Stefanovic

re-sung into English by Steve Mangan

 

[Aeon418]

To be pardoned for the above misdeed, you have to post your thoughts on the reading!

I'm not sure if you want me to interpret the cards or comment on your your interpretation. So I'll just blunder on regardless.

First observation, very interesting cards.

Body: The Tower. What a great card! A card that Crowley described as the preface to Atu XX The Aeon. What better description could there be for the Prophet of the New Aeon. Here I see Crowley the iconoclast, tearing down the crumbling and worn out dogmas of the old aeon. He's a liberating force that terrifies people who don't want their cosy little world view disturbed. But liberating forces are frequently misinterpreted as destructive and harmful in direct proportion to how much they are resisted. But if you align yourself with this force it becomes energizing power. It kind of sums up the kind of polarized, black and white views you seem to get of Crowley.

Mind: 3 of Swords. Another good card but a weird one too. To me this card in this position is presenting a challenge. It's basically saying, "Do you honestly think you can understand the mind of Aleister Crowley with your mere intellect?" The 3 of Swords is big "No Entry" sign to the intellect. The Ruach-mind can't rise this high on the Tree. Likewise, lesser minds (like mine ) can never fully understand the mind of Aleister Crowley. He was too damn clever, and much of his undertanding went beyond the level of Ruach into Neschamah.

Soul: 8 of Pentacles.I'm not even going to attempt interpretation here because a quote from Liber 418 says more than I ever could.

And the young man seems to read my thought, which is, that I should love to stay in this garden and do nothing for ever; for he sayeth to me: Come with me, and behold how NEMO tendeth his garden.

So we enter the earth, and there is a veiled figure, in absolute darkness. Yet it is perfectly possible to see in it, so that the minutest details do not escape us. And upon the root of one flower he pours acid so that that root writhes as if in torture. And another he cuts, and the shriek is like the shriek of a mandrake, torn up by the roots. And another he chars with fire, and yet another he anoints with oil.

And I said: Heavy is the labour, but great indeed is the reward.

And the young man answered me: He shall not see the reward, he tendeth the garden.

And I said: What shall come unto him?

And he said: This thou canst not know, nor is it revealed by the letters that are the totems of the stars, but only by the stars.

And he says to me, quite disconnectedly: The man of earth is the adherent. The lover giveth his life unto the work among men. The hermit goeth solitary, and giveth only of his light unto men.

And I ask him: Why does he tell me that?

And he says: I tell thee not. Thou tellest thyself, for thou hast pondered thereupon for many days, and hast not found light. And now that thou art called NEMO, the answer to every riddle that thou hast not found shall spring up in thy mind, unsought. Who can tell upon what day a flower shall bloom?

And thou shalt give thy wisdom unto the world, and that shall be thy garden.

Base: Ace of Cups. Love is the law, love under will.

Being the Prophet of an Aeon is a thankless task. The people you try to liberate and wake up revile and hate you. You won't live to see the fruit of your labours. You'll be dismissed as a crank and a looney and die in poverty. Apart from a handful of people the rest of the world will be glad that you're dead. You would have to crazy or full of Love to do it.

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.

Isn't that a hard pill to swallow when the Prophet happens to be Aleister Crowley.

 

[moderndayruth]

Amazing. Really impressive.

Isn't that a hard pill to swallow when the Prophet happens to be Aleister Crowley.

Absolutely no! Au contraire!

But, honestly, when you start to study Kabbalah - one of the first things that you learn is that what you (i, us) call reality - is only 5% of it that we perceive with our five senses , the 95% is hidden and usually is the total opposite of what we believe/think it to be.

Aeon, i personally - and i believe all who posted in the thread, came here with an open mind; i don't have pre-existing opinion that i am trying to enforce on anyone, that would be too Thomas Aquinas-like to my taste; i personally prefer the way of the Socrates, wandering and inquisitive, lacking any precepts but the commitment to understand the truth to the best of one's abilities. If my posts so far haven't persuaded you it is so - i deeply thank you for the knowledge you shared and i bow out of the thread,as i can't be bothered to start every post with a note *i am not a Crowley hater and this is not a personal attack*.
Thank you.

 

[Aeon418]

But just how the "New Aeon" and the "Do what thou wilt" combine is the main mystery to me. Is the former the result of the latter?

In a way, yes and no. Chicken and egg question?

You can think of the New Aeon as a period in time when the conscious and spiritual evolution of increasing numbers of humans will reach a level where they are able to make direct contact with their own divinity. In the past this kind of attainment was the sole preserve of a few remarkable individuals. Everyone else had to follow the rules and regulations dispensed by a priestcraft or try to emulate a role model saviour figure like Jesus.

In my opinion many people are beginning to "grow out" of this kind of spirituality and instead of looking outside of themselves for guidance they are beginning to look within. Deus est Homo.

Of course we're only a little over 100 years in, so it's still early days yet.

 

[Aeon418]

Amazing. Really impressive.

Hey, you're the one that drew such good cards. The credit is yours.

 

[moderndayruth]

Being the Prophet of an Aeon is a thankless task. The people you try to liberate and wake up revile and hate you. You won't live to see the fruit of your labours. You'll be dismissed as a crank and a looney and die in poverty. Apart from a handful of people the rest of the world will be glad that you're dead. You would have to crazy or full of Love to do it.

In conclusion, i wanted to add that my intent in starting this thread was to understand - for the lack of better term - the discourse of Thoth deck, and how far does it eventually stretch;
i think it shouldn't be considered to be an undertaking of a " lesser mind ", because after all, all the so-called prophets of whatever - dealt with humanity, not with extraterrestrials; presumably they referred to us and their "liberating efforts" were meant for us - as limited as our minds are... or aren't.
I don't see a point in scorning at Judeo -Christian tradition, and then making the same projections on something else; the above description to me personally sounds like a mere switch in the view of savior and redeemer from Jesus of Nasareth to Aleister Crowley.
The thing is that i don't believe in this messianic stuff - to whomever it goes attributed; as a kabbalist - i believe everyone has to do their own homework; i believe Crowley knew it too and i don't think he would like to be seen as a victim, or like a crazy man per that matter; i don't think that's what he had striven for.
Its a pity that those of us who are willing can not learn from the people who obviously have immense knowledge in this camp - for the mere reason that emotions, fueled by presumptions come before the reason.
Oh, and just to add - there aren't fixed rules on how far a soul can go, the point of the magical practice is actually to strengthen it, so that it can go as far as it never dreamt it could.

 

[Aeon418]

I don't see a point in scorning at Judeo -Christian tradition, and then making the same projections on something else; the above description to me personally sounds like a mere switch in the view of savior and redeemer from Jesus of Nasareth to Aleister Crowley.

But would anyone in their right mind really want to accept Crowley as a messianic savior in the same way someone would do with Jesus? I certainly can't. I admire him, but not that much. Beyond that a rudimentary knowledge of the philsophy that Crowley promoted would make the idea seem absurd.

 

[Aeon418]

And I said: Heavy is the labour, but great indeed is the reward.

And the young man answered me: He shall not see the reward, he tendeth the garden.

Art for arts sake.

Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.

 

[moderndayruth]

But would anyone in their right mind really want to accept Crowley as a messianic savior in the same way someone would do with Jesus?

My thoughts exactly.

I certainly can't. I admire him, but not that much.

Well, you know, its all in the comparison; yours (generic you) "not that much" is others "blind faith" and fanaticism too.

Beyond that a rudimentary knowledge of the philsophy that Crowley promoted would make the idea seem absurd.

Precisely. But it seems the will is sometimes weak. Or something.
Honestly, i am surprised at the attitude, given the profound knowledge of the subject, as the two seem incompatible - but, hey, human psyche is the biggest wonder of all.
Cheers.

p.s. rudimentary common knowledge, as an addition to the magical that is after all arbitrary - doesn't hurt either