Where does "True Will" come from?

[yogiman]

Hmmm. What I meant was that your will changes and is influenced by physical things. For example, if you're making a sandwich, your will might to make the best sandwich you can. Once you're done, your will is to eat it.

The will you are talking about is within the causal domain. There is the metaphor of the stone that rolls down a mountain, and is thinking it is doing this out of itself.

What you are referring to is not the will as mentioned in the bhagavad gita: the will without lust for result.

 

[Always Wondering]

Hmmm. What I meant was that your will changes and is influenced by physical things. For example, if you're making a sandwich, your will might to make the best sandwich you can. Once you're done, your will is to eat it.

I would agree, Will is very dynamic that way.

And I like your sandwich example.

Be every act an act of love and worship.
Be every act a fiat of a God.
Be every act a source of radiant Glory.

BOT

 

[yogiman]

Another quote from Paul Case, relating to the Wheel of Fortune:

One by another do I mitigate
So that nowhere in the universe
Is there any real want or failure.
Neither is there anywhere injustice,
For the semblance of it
Is one of the aspects
Of the delusion of separateness.

This suggests that we don't have a free will. This smells very much after the -law of attraction- thing. If you are curious why I am not bothering BOTA devotees on their forum, than it is because I hate this particular commentary, which betrays a total lack of sense of reality. And I hope you don't grab the opportunity to tell me that Crowley with his 2=0 statement said the same thing.

 

[ravenest]

Hmmm. What I meant was that your will changes and is influenced by physical things. For example, if you're making a sandwich, your will might to make the best sandwich you can. Once you're done, your will is to eat it.

Or one can project forward a bit when formulating a purpose of Will;

Leader: (knocks 3-5-3) Do what thou wilt shall be the whole of the Law.
All: What is thy will?
Leader: It is my will to eat and to drink.
All: To what end?
Leader: That I may fortify my body thereby.
All: To what end?
Leader: That I may accomplish the Great Work.
All: Love is the law, love under will.
Leader: (knocks once) Fall to!

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/Saying_Will

 

[ravenest]

The will you are talking about is within the causal domain. There is the metaphor of the stone that rolls down a mountain, and is thinking it is doing this out of itself.

What you are referring to is not the will as mentioned in the bhagavad gita: the will without lust for result.

No it isnt .... errrmmmmm - we are not talking about the Bhagavad-Gita this is a Thoth forum and the related system is The Book of the Law.

 

[ravenest]

Another quote from Paul Case, relating to the Wheel of Fortune:


This suggests that we don't have a free will. This smells very much after the -law of attraction- thing. If you are curious why I am not bothering BOTA devotees on their forum, than it is because I hate this particular commentary, which betrays a total lack of sense of reality. And I hope you don't grab the opportunity to tell me that Crowley with his 2=0 statement said the same thing.

Are you saying that you hate this commentary and it betrays a total lack of sense of reality yet you are using it as an example to demonstrate or suggest we don't have a free will ?

Or are you saying that because it has no sense of reality it IS demonstrated we do have a free will?

In any case why are you posting issues about free will here anyway (and mixing it all up with the bahagavad gita) ???

 

[yogiman]

That about the bhagavad gita was a joke.

I was just waiting for your question.

Case's words are an intro to a very difficult problem. An often heard new age statement in my younger years was: there is no evil, because everything is Unity. Full of this credo, I have fallen in some horrific traps, which have ruined the rest of my life.

I respect Paul Case really much, and I love the rest of his book of tokens, but the way he states this is an unforgivable blunder. So now there is the paradox that within duality evil is really real, but "within unity" everything dissolves, like 2=0. But per definition we cannot exist or experience "within the unity".

Will (intention) can be very dark, there are people who enjoy it to inflict a lot of pain to others, and I think it is one of the unsolvable questions where this will comes from, but we could ponder about it in order to be aware of it, so that we will not be shaken by an unpleasant surprise.

 

[ravenest]

The unsolvable question seems to be; why do you keep confusing the concept in Thelema of 'True Will' (the thread topic) with other concepts of will ... free will ... or whatever , when that repeatedly and clearly is pointed out to you.

Also I note that you acknowledge some responsibility in that ; " An often heard new age statement in my younger years was: there is no evil, because everything is Unity. Full of this credo, I have fallen in some horrific traps, which have ruined the rest of my life."

1. Well, that was your issue, Thelema does not advocate that ' there is no evil, because everything is Unity.'

In many places I have posted reference to what evil is considered in Thelema as well as giving my personal philosophical opinions on it as a Thelemite.

2. It is also your issue "which have ruined the rest of my life." This does not need to be so and again there are references in Thelema and my personal opinion as a Thelemite which suggest the rest of your life may be improved and actually you may come to shine as a star in your own orbit ... and exist in harmony with other stars;

“Thus we balance the Triads, uniting the Three in One; thus we gather up all the threads of human passion and interest, and weave them into an harmonious tapestry, subtly and diligently with great art, that our Order may seem an ornament even to the Stars that are in the Heavens at Night. In our rainbow-coloured texture we set forth the glory of the whole Universe— See thou to it, brother Magician, that thine own thread be strong, and pure, and of a colour brilliant in itself, yet ready to mingle in all beauty with those of thy brethren!”

Also this : http://hermetic.com/crowley/libers/lib30.html

Good luck with realising your life may not be ruined … I wish you well.

 

[ravenest]

Will (intention) can be very dark, there are people who enjoy it to inflict a lot of pain to others, and I think it is one of the unsolvable questions where this will comes from, but we could ponder about it in order to be aware of it, so that we will not be shaken by an unpleasant surprise.

This is the exact 'mythic dynamic' I suggested in another post that relates to prince of Cups and Scorpio - especially in the male psyche.

Maybe this is why you had to go through the experiences you did with " Will (intention) can be very dark, there are people who enjoy it to inflict a lot of pain to others, and I think it is one of the unsolvable questions where this will comes from"

This encapsulates the whole journey of Scorpio down into the depths of the psyche (and is one explanation of why Mars is there in my astro tree) 'How does a man use his power? * When the choice is made man ascends and becomes the other Scorpionic totem - the eagle ... but will he have made the right decision? Will he use that power to have his will over others and hence take the path of the 'black brother'?

But all of this is WILL ... and has to do with the regulation of the Id by the Superego ... as such it is not really a conversation about the TRUE WILL as a concept in Thelema ... this is all about a closed loop system in my astro tree ... but it doesn't work like that ... the tree is open at the bottom so persona can venture forth via personality into environment and the sosiocultural realm and open at the top where some type of True Will or life direction and incarnatory purpose are 'injected'.

 

[yogiman]

And a fairly interesting blog in general

Thelemic Thought experiments

...

Today Dion Fortune gave me something to think about regarding this question, albeit indirectly.

In another passage from -the mystical qabalah- (p.125, about the sephirah Geburah) Dion Fortune states:

Up to this point in his progress up the grades an initiate learns the lessons
of discipline, control, and stability; he acquires, in fact, what Nietzsche calls slave-
morality-a very necessary discipline for unregenerate human nature, so proud in its own
conceit.

As an addendum to the thought experiment, I would like to pose the question if someone can act in accordance with his True Will, or work towards his True Will by acquiring the (according to Fortune) at this stage necessary slave-morality.