Where does "True Will" come from?

[ravenest]

What I mean to say, is, that when I accuse someone, I at least do it rightly.

Like with evidence and proof and justified reason and all that ?

In that case, I hope you (both) are not fooling yourself.

Oh no .... nothing like that I fully understand the illusion though ... that's why I said , hit fast rewind << hit stop * hit play >

The thing with being outside a magical circle ... it IS confusing as the magician can see out of the sphere of blue coloured light but all the outsider sees is a shiny reflective like substance.

And thanks for the lightning flash

You are quiet welcome

 

[yogiman]

Like with evidence and proof and justified reason and all that ?

May a lighting bolt hit me, in case I have done something wrong.

 

[ravenest]

May a lighting bolt hit me, in case I have done something wrong.

Don't be silly.

Paste that tanka pic somewhere where you can expand it and check all the little details ... that's always fun and en lightening ( being struck by en lightening is more fun than being stuck by lightening ..... that's why Crowley changed Judgement ( for 'in case' you have done something wrong) to ADjustment (towards enlightenment).

See those little flaming skeletons wrestling with each other in the bottom right corner? In the left the same burning bones are gambling and playing cards (tarot ?) ...look at the segments in the main wheel, they sort of match themes with either side as they go up; left is wild nature/hell, going up to wild nature to 'tamed nature' to heavenly something, Right is social hell going up to ruined society (famine) going up to prosperous society going up to heavenly society.

hang on! those guys up in 'tamed nature' gave grown a Tree (Cant be the Tree of Life can it?)
It 'intrudes' up into heavenly sector and there are people living up in it ... that's kind of cheating one would think? Others down on the ground think so, they are firing arrows and missiles at those in top of the tree heaven, people up there are fighting back (how on earth did they get a way elephant up in the tree ???)

Regardless, someone in lowest section of tamed nature is chopping the tree down ... that will sort THAT out.

I wonder what it all means ???

 

[Karrma]

A while back I was 'throwing Tankas' ( posting amazing paintings of Tibetan Buddas at people ) one was the Buddha who vanquished teachers of false Dharma - here is one for you - ( don't worry it is a safe one )

Vajrayogini (Vajra – heavenly thunderbolt - see Thoth 2 of Wands. Yogini – female Yogi )

http://www.exoticindia.com/buddha/vajrayogini_mandala_to86.jpg

ah … what the heck … have two

http://v7.tsemtulku.com/images/stories/resources/freepictures/deitypics/vajrayogini2006B.jpg

( It might take a bit to load but worth it – its expandable .)

Tank you.

And also for your story in the Gift section, is it going to be the new 1001 nights?

And the en lightened link to vajra, I have seen that word more than a few times, did not know the symbolism as detailed as you pointed out (dare I say Wikipedia helped). And the Vajra is made of the bone of a sage. Fighting with the bones of wisdom.

 

[ravenest]

Tank you.

And also for your story in the Gift section, is it going to be the new 1001 nights?

No the 777 nights It is an example of a rare mythological theme in that instead of the hero male ego searching and redeeming the lost woman soul Psyche anima, it focuses on a hero female that redeems her own repressed animus.

[ “The anima and animus are described by Jung as elements of his theory of the collective unconscious, a domain of the unconscious that transcends the personal psyche. In the unconscious of the male, this archetype finds expression as a feminine inner personality: anima; equivalently, in the unconscious of the female it is expressed as a masculine inner personality: animus.” Wiki ]

 

[Zephyros]

An interesting essay on a blog by someone who calls themselves IAO131 on the subject of True Will

http://iao131.com/2012/05/21/true-will-the-radical-re-orientation-towards-becoming-who-we-are-pt-1/

And a fairly interesting blog in general

Thelemic Thought experiments

 

[Zephyros]

Today Dion Fortune gave me something to think about regarding this question, albeit indirectly. I've been doing a refresher on Hod and Netzach, since I'm studying this area anyway, and I cam upon this passage:

4. It is important for the understanding of the five lower Sephiroth to note that the present stage of evolution has brought some degree of development of human consciousness in their Spheres. Tiphareth represents the higher consciousness wherein the individuality unites with the personality:

Netzach and Hod represent the force and form aspects of astral consciousness respectively. Because human consciousness has made a degree of development in these spheres, their purely cosmic nature is considerably overlaid by its influences; and as human consciousness, being developed in Malkuth, is a consciousness of forms derived from the experience of physical sensations, the conditions of Malkuth are reflected back, though in a rarefied form, into Hod and Netzach, and in a lesser degree into Tiphareth;
Yesod is even more markedly conditioned by the rising influence of Malkuth.

5. This is due to the fact that the mind of any being of a sufficient degree of development to have achieved an independent will works objectively on its environment, thereby modifying it.

If I understand this correctly, and apply what I understand, she is saying that Malkuth is where things manifest physically, while Hod and Netzach are the ways we perceive that physicality, through Malkuth radiating upward and subtly modifying the upper Sephiroth, including Tiphareth. One's Will is thus not something that simply comes from "above" but is a confluence of factors, some of which depend on one's own physical situation. Seen in this way, this explains how Will is affected by the Wills of others, location, circumstances, etc.

On the one hand one could infer a certain caste system from this, that a fisherman must be a fisherman and not a CEO, but on the other hand it shows how changeable and dynamic Will really is, since it isn't predetermined from above. The poor fisherman may be doing his Will fishing, and as a result he grows rich from it (it's just an example) and in time he does become that CEO, and so his Will changes according to his circumstances and perception.

 

[yogiman]

One's Will is thus not something that simply comes from "above" but is a confluence of factors, some of which depend on one's own physical situation. Seen in this way, this explains how Will is affected by the Wills of others, location, circumstances, etc.

Sounds like saying that Chokhmah can't function without Binah. It is pure will energy which takes a form (quality). Paul Case says the following in the book of tokens:

Always then is aspiration
Like the reflected image of the Sun in a glass,
Which, if it striketh straight into the eyes,
Seemeth to be the Sun itself.
No man riseth to RUACH by his own power.
Yet many delude themselves concerning this,
And from that delusion spring up many weeds of error.
Know ye that the least of thine impulses towards what
seemeth to be Above,
Hath its source in that same Above.
Avoid error by keeping fast to this.
Nothing in the levels of YESOD and MALKUTH,
Ever can or doth seth power into operation.
These are but as glasses,
And the feelings and interpretations
of the Spheres of Desire and Intellect
directed downward toward YESOD and MALKUTH,
Are as spectators watching a mirrored reflection
Wherein all is the reverse of the true images.

 

[ravenest]

Today Dion Fortune gave me something to think about regarding this question, albeit indirectly. I've been doing a refresher on Hod and Netzach, since I'm studying this area anyway, and I cam upon this passage:



If I understand this correctly, and apply what I understand, she is saying that Malkuth is where things manifest physically, while Hod and Netzach are the ways we perceive that physicality, through Malkuth radiating upward and subtly modifying the upper Sephiroth, including Tiphareth. One's Will is thus not something that simply comes from "above" but is a confluence of factors, some of which depend on one's own physical situation. Seen in this way, this explains how Will is affected by the Wills of others, location, circumstances, etc.

I see it sort of like that but I have variations. In this regard my Astro Tree model works better for me. The top is outer planets socio/cultural influences , these descend to effect super ego around the Jupiter Saturn sun middle triad and formulate ego, which comes down to the inner planets and unconscious Id dynamics and down to base or persona but this all relates outward through personality and in environment ... which gives feed back up the Tree, but in another way that socio cultural environment that the persona responds to in environment defines those mores and taboos that regulate the Super ego through the outer planets.

My main difference is that Mars is down there with Venus and Mercury as the regulator (these triangulate Moon that is joined to Sun through Mercury). It does however hold as an important function that two way feedback loop that Dion seems to be describing. I mean if not, why have incarnation or socio cultural evolution in the first place

On the one hand one could infer a certain caste system from this, that a fisherman must be a fisherman and not a CEO, but on the other hand it shows how changeable and dynamic Will really is, since it isn't predetermined from above. The poor fisherman may be doing his Will fishing, and as a result he grows rich from it (it's just an example) and in time he does become that CEO, and so his Will changes according to his circumstances and perception.

That depends on application: There seems to have been a shared system that split into two and developed with variations into the Hindu caste System and the old Zoroastrian system. They are very similar except the Iranian (per- Muslim ) system allows one to move through the casts and is open the same way to women as to men are their initiations. One is based on birth, the other merit.

 

[Zephyros]

That depends on application: There seems to have been a shared system that split into two and developed with variations into the Hindu caste System and the old Zoroastrian system. They are very similar except the Iranian (per- Muslim ) system allows one to move through the casts and is open the same way to women as to men are their initiations. One is based on birth, the other merit.

Hmmm. What I meant was that your will changes and is influenced by physical things. For example, if you're making a sandwich, your will might to make the best sandwich you can. Once you're done, your will is to eat it.