XVI - La Maison Diev

[Lumen]

Venicebard, itrocksmyworld, and Melancholic,

I would like to add to your linkage old/new covenant and to the theological discussion, by calling on some historical facts of the time when this card was first printed, or early 1500s.

I believe that The House of God (replacing the House of Devil in the Italian version) represents a statement of the time when the Catholic Church was in fact in cahoots with politics, and in my view it is a “protest” card saying that any house of god that holds a crown is doomed to fall as they are not following the teachings of Jesus and God. Perhaps the house of god represents the formation of the Society of Jesus, or Jesuit and Franciscan orders. Both orders were alternative to the traditional Catholic Church that worked closely with monarchs; Jesuits and Franciscans believe in the sacrifice on earth, helping the fellow human (in fact Jesuits were the first anthropologists and human rights activists of modernity), in giving up the material goods, in penitence for purifying the soul, and yes, in the separation of church and state.
A few historical facts points towards House of God as a card of protest:
1. Portugal begins slave trade in 1440 and enlarges its empire in the last half of 15th century.
2. Italy and Spain advance to search for the “new world;” it was already known by many that this land existed. This knowledge came from travelers from China, from Greenland crossing over towards what is now Canada, and from other individuals who sailed towards this side.
3. Columbus set sail west to pursue this land for Queen of Spain and for Pope Alexander VI. It was a political and economic maneuver, with the support of the Pope, and the Treaty of Tordesillas, signed in 1494, dividing the newly found land between Spain and Portugal, before exploring the land to find out if it indeed was a continent, confirms the fact that high clergy and crown members were aware and knowledgeable of previous accounts from travels to this side of the planet, and of its size and potential.
4. France and Italy were left out of the Treaty and resented this fact. France began criticizing the Pope for not fulfilling his “job” as the representative of God on Earth, by not dividing the newly found continent equally among the Catholics, and accused the Pope of favoritism.
5. The expulsion of Jews from Spain and the long lasting war between Spain and Muslims fortified the links between Spanish Crown and Catholic Church.
6. France occupies Milan in 1499 - which certainly added a new dimension to the local population, with different world view, and this fact, in my opinion, has allowed for a new TdM version to emerge.
8. Henry the VIII broke off with Catholic Church in 1534 and formed the Anglican Church.
7. The Jesuit Order, a break with the traditional Catholic Church was also formed in 1534, and it is set on the principle of human rights and social justice. And I speculate that the house of god is in fact speaking of this break. And I speculate even further to say that those who created the TdM deck were not from nobility, nor from the higher echelons of the church, and were everyday people who saw and disliked the fact that the Catholic Church enmeshed itself deeply into politics. So, in the political and economic historical links, I see the appearance of this card in early 1500s as a representation of the breaks with the traditional Catholic Church, and a statement about this separation. And to add to this, the idea of separation of church and state was in fact one of the main drives for the Anglo-Saxon world to move over this land: to flee religious persecution, to practice whatever religion freely, and to ascertain the separation of church and state - these ideals are sealed in the US declaration of independence, a true Tower experience.

Just my 2¢.

 

[venicebard]

Venicebard, itrocksmyworld, and Melancholic,

I would like to add to your linkage old/new covenant and to the theological discussion, by calling on some historical facts of the time when this card was first printed, or early 1500s.

I believe that The House of God (replacing the House of Devil in the Italian version) represents a statement of the time when the Catholic Church was in fact in cahoots with politics, and in my view it is a “protest” card saying that any house of god that holds a crown is doomed to fall as they are not following the teachings of Jesus and God.

I think this hits the nail on the head, at least certainly with regard to its outer significance. For the reverberations within, stemming from its meaning the giving-way of the old dispensation for the new—end of the reign of church and state both (replaced by the humane heart)—are quite consistent with this.

2. Italy and Spain advance to search for the “new world;” it was already known by many that this land existed. This knowledge came from travelers from China, from Greenland crossing over towards what is now Canada, and from other individuals who sailed towards this side.

Knowledge of the 'New World' flowed amongst several peoples of the Old long before Leif Eriksson: Brazil is Phoenician for 'iron'—Libyan sailors brought Egyptian ships here from both directions during the first millennium BCE!

6. France occupies Milan in 1499 - which certainly added a new dimension to the local population, with different world view, and this fact, in my opinion, has allowed for a new TdM version to emerge.

Here I think (but could be wrong) you are reflecting the historians' view that tarot started in Italy and spread via this contact to Provence: to me it is hardly possible that the varied (i.e. non-standardized) and by-and-large symbologically inferior Italian decks could possibly represent tarot's original, it being much more likely (indeed obvious, to me) that the venerable Marseilles deck constituted the original—so standardized that its trumps' rankings did not even need numbers or titles, according to evidence LePendu has presented on this very site (that the title-and-number strip was added later, evident from the way it obscures parts of certain designs). This would mean of course that it already existed by 1499 and was transferred then (or earlier?) to Italy. So my (educated) guess is that number-title strips had not yet been added when they moved to Italy, so that they ended up in a different order for each place that adopted them, it seems. The Cary Sheet has always struck me as an offshoot of TdM, not its prototype, and the only reason examples of TdM have not survived from the 15th or 16th century—or that the only survival from the 17th looks more like a bitter parody than a true example—can only be that since it was the standard deck (unrivaled north of the Alps), old decks were discarded and replaced (the oldest decks in Italy, even, were discovered discarded in wells and cisterns).

8. Henry the VIII broke off with Catholic Church in 1534 and formed the Anglican Church.
7. The Jesuit Order, a break with the traditional Catholic Church was also formed in 1534

To late to be causative, methinks, but certainly a symptom of the trend you outline. I see the proximate cause as having happened earlier, in the Cathar heresy and its aftermath: the Albigensian Crusade pushed the centers of heresy eastward (and those of Kabbalah southward into Spain), so that somewhat later TdM cropped up at Lyons and Marseille.

So, in the political and economic historical links, I see the appearance of this card in early 1500s as a representation of the breaks with the traditional Catholic Church, and a statement about this separation.

I have long branded TdM Gnostic, but not fanatically so since it uses V LePape to symbolize blessing (of the twin waxing and waning year, born in the first month, that of B, 5, beith the birch), thus forming a sort of counterbalance to XVI LaMaisonDieu—as if saying "On the one hand... and on the other hand."

And to add to this, the idea of separation of church and state was in fact one of the main drives for the Anglo-Saxon world to move over this land: to flee religious persecution, to practice whatever religion freely, and to ascertain the separation of church and state - these ideals are sealed in the US declaration of independence, a true Tower experience.

Picky me would like to clarify this by saying 'separation' only in the sense of not establishing a state religion (as I think you meant it); but this modern notion that no-one who works for government can let anyone know they are religious (wear a crucifix, for instance, or speak their mind) is a load o' crap (forgive my French).

Just my 2¢.

Mine back atcha.

 

[Lumen]

Hi Venicebard,

I will answer as you did: point by point. But since I had problems before with the 'quote' feature, I'll do the fast old fashion way: copy-paste.

V: "I think this hits the nail on the head, at least certainly with regard to its outer significance. For the reverberations within, stemming from its meaning the giving-way of the old dispensation for the new—end of the reign of church and state both (replaced by the humane heart)—are quite consistent with this."

L: Well, the card is so blatant. Do you have an exact year for the first time this design was set? I'm willing to be $$ on that this card really reflects the general population sentiment of the time.

V: "Knowledge of the 'New World' flowed amongst several peoples of the Old long before Leif Eriksson: Brazil is Phoenician for 'iron'—Libyan sailors brought Egyptian ships here from both directions during the first millennium BCE!"

L: Yes, it is true. Some Chinese anthropologists hypothesized that the Olmecs and the indigenous populations in Northern Chile, Southern Bolivia were descendents of some Chinese Emperor who was banned out of China and sailed East towards the shores of what is now Chile/Bolivia - they say the Easter Island sculptures were made by this Emperor entourage or descendants. Please, don't ask me for the source, but it is there, just enter subject archaeology, Olmec, Chinese, and you'll probably access some texts on this. You'll need a powerful academic library tho.

V: "Here I think (but could be wrong) you are reflecting the historians' view that tarot started in Italy and spread via this contact to Provence: to me it is hardly possible that the varied (i.e. non-standardized) and by-and-large symbologically inferior Italian decks could possibly represent tarot's original, it being much more likely (indeed obvious, to me) that the venerable Marseilles deck constituted the original—so standardized that its trumps' rankings did not even need numbers or titles, according to evidence LePendu has presented on this very site (that the title-and-number strip was added later, evident from the way it obscures parts of certain designs). This would mean of course that it already existed by 1499 and was transferred then (or earlier?) to Italy. So my (educated) guess is that number-title strips had not yet been added when they moved to Italy, so that they ended up in a different order for each place that adopted them, it seems. The Cary Sheet has always struck me as an offshoot of TdM, not its prototype, and the only reason examples of TdM have not survived from the 15th or 16th century—or that the only survival from the 17th looks more like a bitter parody than a true example—can only be that since it was the standard deck (unrivaled north of the Alps), old decks were discarded and replaced (the oldest decks in Italy, even, were discovered discarded in wells and cisterns)."

L: The events I listed here are culminations, are the pinnacle, the climax, the turning point of something that was brewing for years. In this case, since we are talking about the middle ages, I'm willing to bet again (Boy, I'm in a gambling mood tonight!) that the discontent began early 1400s. The Jesuits were an order formed as a response of years of discontent of those inside the church who disagreed with the Pope (don't me ask about this, as this is not my area of expertise; the history books are filled with data about such and such who was burned by the order of the Pope, or quartered, or beheaded, etc because he or she didn't agree with the Pope's policies). In fact, in this link, http://jackytappet.tripod.com/chain.html you can see the Great Chain of Being, from 1532 (where actors were below beggars), the placement of Pope at the same level of the king. And the evidence of opposition to this marriage of interests is made clear by the creation of both Franciscan and Jesuit orders.

So, the formation of the order was just the result of years of struggle. On this subject, of the struggle of the oppressed, I'm an expert. It is my area of study and research, and also the symbols that convey discontent and express desire for sociopolitical change. So, I'm speaking from the expert on sociopolitical movements of resistance perspective, and the Jesuits were formed as resistance, and a resistance movement does not spring out from night to day. It builds up, beginning with the individual, and then with shared experience, organizing, protesting, torture, killing, more protest, more deaths, on and on until a large number joins in and then you have a turning point, a revolution, a radical change, a split, like the one that occurred with the foundation of the Jesuit order of 1534. In fact, they lived as a separate world from the crown's and the orthodox or traditional Catholic church everyday. In Latin America, the Jesuits were the first to contact and understand the natives. They, in a way, were Rousseaunian (or pre-Rousseaunian/Rousseanian, or maybe Rousseau was a closet Jesuit...), and seeing humans living a lifestyle close to the "Garden of Eden," I'd bet 100 more chips on this one that they were in heaven, that is, Jesuits revered the natives' harmonious living with nature and God, they were the admirers and scholars of natives. Marshall Sahlins, an anthropologist and theorist, called the natives "the original affluent societies" in a text of the same title. Very Rousseaunian. The Jesuits were the first ones to defend indigenous rights as human rights, and to protect slaves. They were the quiet rebels. So, yeah, I believe the card reflects exactly that: the general discontent of the population, indoctrinated by the Jesuit propaganda.

Also I brought the example of Henry VIII because it was again another expression of the general discontent with the church of the time.

Well, I hope now I'm very clear on why I think that La Maison Dieu is in fact a political statement, a protest card, and a clear representation of the split within and with the Church.

 

[venicebard]

Do you have an exact year for the first time this design was set? I'm willing to be $$ on that this card really reflects the general population sentiment of the time.

More likely only a portion of popular sentiment, as is usually the case when people claim 'popular opinion' was so-and-so (lol). I am of the opinion that the original cards in Europe were probably TdM, so we are talking about, yes, sometime in I guess the late 1300s that the cards would have appeared on the public scene (though embodying a tradition much, much older than that, namely that from which Celtic bardic tradition and Judaic Merkavah branched off and became distinct, decaying differently then cross-fecundating each other in 12th-century Provence-Languedoc).

The events I listed here are culminations, are the pinnacle, the climax, the turning point of something that was brewing for years. In this case, since we are talking about the middle ages, I'm willing to bet again (Boy, I'm in a gambling mood tonight!) that the discontent began early 1400s.

Brewing for years? More like a century and a half or more. The Cathar 'heresy' in the Languedoc became popular (in the 12th century) because of discontent with the corruption of the Church (and the relative purity of the Cathars, who were much like the original Christians). Then the Albigensian Crusade destroyed the culture that had spawned the Troubadours and Cathars and imposed French rule on the Languedoc, which brought the power of Rome there in earnest, the first Inquisition being founded to rid the world of the surviving Cathars primarily. Indeed the Franciscans date from that very era (early 1200s). (Interesting what you said about the Jesuits, who today garner much praise for their institutions of learning.)

 

[foolish]

Hi guys. I was just skimming through this post - admittedly, I haven't read the entire thread - just skipped to the last couple of pages. I find it interesting that you find both a political message and a popular anti-Church sentiment in this card. I happen to agree with this interpretation.

If we are to put this into a real historical context (which I think the cards may likely represent), I don't believe there is any "event" more significant than the anihilation of the Cathar communities from Languedoc during the 13th to 15th centuries. The ramifications of this collaberation between the Catholic Church and the French monarchy is beyond anything we have to relate to in modern history. Even the holocost in Germany didn't involve a calculated partnership of the State with the religious authorities of Europe.

Perhaps some of the imagery in the cards changed when the tarot was brought to France from Italy in order to relate this period of local history, which, until then, was passed on through the more common oral tradition. Given this context, the tower could easily represent the battle for Montsegur, in which hundreds of Cathar leaders were burned in a pyre at the bottom of the castle/tower, and which represented the general fall of the Cathar resistence to the forces of the French crusaders.

It may not be coincidental that the flames from the castle are shooting outward - toward the sun - which could suggest the return of the souls of the Cathar priests, or perfects, to the source - a direct reflection of the Cathar theology. In addition, the placement of the card seems consistent with the story, as the historical personalities and events are now followed by a series of "theological" cards, represented by the astrological bodies.

And at the end (given the placement of the Fool at the end of the deck), the Fool - representing the fugitive Cathar perfect - is seen fleeing in disguise from the barking demands and persecution of the Church (represented, as it commonly was found in the literature of the time - by the image of the dog).

 

[venicebard]

If we are to put this into a real historical context (which I think the cards may likely represent), I don't believe there is any "event" more significant than the anihilation of the Cathar communities from Languedoc during the 13th to 15th centuries.

I think you're right: it was a major upheaval, a 'crusade' declared against fellow European Christians who happened simply to be closer to the original Christianity than to the Church of Rome. What do you think of the possibility that, pushed from the Languedoc, the heretically minded survived in the Provence region, such that when the deck of cards expressing the heretical viewpoint surfaced it did so in the region of Marseille and Lyons?

Perhaps some of the imagery in the cards changed when the tarot was brought to France from Italy in order to relate this period of local history, which, until then, was passed on through the more common oral tradition.

I do not consider it even remotely established that tarot originated in Italy. The fact that decks survive from earlier there than in France tells us nothing if old Marseilles decks were simply discarded and replaced because it was the standard type.

 

[foolish]

I don't think there's any question that fugitives from Languedoc ended up in Northern Italy after the Albigensian crusade. We have evidence that other heretical sects, including some forms of Catharism, were still present there, where the Inquisition was not as vigorous in its efforts. Some of them probably found refuge with families such as the Visconti, who, as we know, weren't on great terms with the Pope in Rome.

I believe that the cards could have been brought over to southern France during the series of wars between Italy and France at the end of the 15th century. (soldiers have always been notorious for finding ways, like card games, to pass their "down time.") It's possible that the new images seen in the TDM reflect the historical and spiritual story of the Cathar persecution in a more specific nature, partly due to the fact that the oral transmission of the story may have been more pervasive in Languedoc, or perhaps simply because the new cardmakers were not concerned with pleasing the Italian patrons.

Let's not forget that, in Italy, most of these decks of cards were hand painted for wealthy patrons who most likely had interests in respresenting their own families. Therefore, even if some heretical concepts were included in these Italian decks, some emphasis would have likely been placed on keeping the patrons happy - thus, the appearances of the Visconti crests, etc.

An important thing to keep in mind is that these heretical "messages" would have still had to be concealed in order to remain out of the grasp of the Inquisition's eyes. Therefore, more universal, or even traditionally Catholic, imagery may have been used to camoflauge any underlying themes that could be found to be heretical. So, the fact that much of the imagery can be explained in these traditional terms does not preclude the idea that these same images had other meanings - which, in fact, they did.

One thing to consider is wheher there was any intention to use these images to represent specific personalities or places, or whether they were intended to portray general themes. For example, in this card, does the Tower represent a general concept of power or even the Church, or could it be pointing to a specific fortification - such as Montsegur castle?

And do the two people falling from the Tower simply have a psychological message, or could they represent real historical figures - such as Ramonde of Pereille, who rebuilt the castle in 1204, and Peter Roger of Mirepoix, who became the castle's co-lord? Although these personalities don't mean much to us now, and maybe didn't find a prominent place in the history books, their names may have been more important at the time.

 

[venicebard]

I don't think there's any question that fugitives from Languedoc ended up in Northern Italy after the Albigensian crusade. We have evidence that other heretical sects, including some forms of Catharism, were still present there, where the Inquisition was not as vigorous in its efforts. Some of them probably found refuge with families such as the Visconti, who, as we know, weren't on great terms with the Pope in Rome.

I don't believe the Visconti had anything to do with the origin of tarot, as the Visconti trump images are too crude, symbolically.

I believe that the cards could have been brought over to southern France during the series of wars between Italy and France at the end of the 15th century. (soldiers have always been notorious for finding ways, like card games, to pass their "down time.")

No, this would be way too late. According to Wikipedia, "Wide use of playing cards in Europe can, with some certainty, be traced from 1377 onwards." And "The first known tarot cards were created between 1430 and 1450 in Milan, Ferrara and Bologna in northern Italy when additional trump cards with allegorical illustrations were added to the common four-suit pack." So if, as seems rather clear to me, TdM was the original form of playing cards in Europe, they must have been in existence in the fourth quarter of the 14th century and transmitted to Italy by the second quarter of the 15th.

It's possible that the new images seen in the TDM reflect the historical and spiritual story of the Cathar persecution in a more specific nature, partly due to the fact that the oral transmission of the story may have been more pervasive in Languedoc, or perhaps simply because the new cardmakers were not concerned with pleasing the Italian patrons.

I think you are mistaken to think the TdM images were 'new': they have to be the original version, as they are the most complete, symbolically, and thus the ONLY coherent symbol SYSTEM of all the different 'versions' of tarot (i.e. the Italian mishmash).

Let's not forget that, in Italy, most of these decks of cards were hand painted for wealthy patrons who most likely had interests in respresenting their own families.

Precisely.

One thing to consider is wheher there was any intention to use these images to represent specific personalities or places, or whether they were intended to portray general themes. For example, in this card, does the Tower represent a general concept of power or even the Church, or could it be pointing to a specific fortification - such as Montsegur castle?

And do the two people falling from the Tower simply have a psychological message, or could they represent real historical figures - such as Ramonde of Pereille, who rebuilt the castle in 1204, and Peter Roger of Mirepoix, who became the castle's co-lord? Although these personalities don't mean much to us now, and maybe didn't find a prominent place in the history books, their names may have been more important at the time.

I must come down categorically on the side of there NOT being an intention to indicate specific personalities, because the driving paradigm behind the images—as can be quite conclusively shown, I might add—is a melding of British Celtic bardic tradition and Judaic esoteric teaching, so the twins being ejected from the Tower are the same twins seen in XVIIII LeSoleil and V LePape (and obliquely in VII LeChariot and XV LeDiable): the waxing year—heroic mode (like the Iliad)—and waning year—satiric mode (like the Odyssey). The esoteric—and alphabetic—meaning of each trump is the intent, any oblique reference to 'current' events tertiary AT BEST. I personally believe the cards were designed the way they were primarily to convey to later generations certain subtleties in the relationship of letter-symbols that the designers felt would otherwise be lost (in the ensuing Dark Age of total Church control of things), as indeed they were amongst the Jews: the transplanted Qabbalah in Spain was lost evidently as a result of the Jews' expulsion therefrom (1492), for I had to painstakingly reconstruct it from extant fragments.

 

[foolish]

As we can see - again, the appearance of the universal symbols used in the tarot renders the cards open to a wide variety of interpretations. One thing that seems reasonably certain to me is that these cards had a multitude of meanings, as they were used by a variety of people who, having their own individual cultural, historical and phsychological backgrounds, were most likely prone to place thier own "stamp" on these cards.

We can see, for example, how the rules of a simple card game in modern times can change from one location to another. In addition, we have an entire field of anthropological evidence that shows that different cultures not only using the materials at their disposal to tell the stories of their particular history, but that thye use similar symbols (i.e. the sun) to do so. This seems to be a natural tendency of mankiind - to record the important events of their history for posterity.

The problem with trying to record information relating to the Albigensian saga is that, during the time the tarot was being created, it was still considered a highly heretical topic - typically punished by death or life imprisonment. So, it would have been impossible for anyone to come out and present this in precise and unambiguous terms.

In regards to your comments of the origin of the tarot, most of the sources I have checked out agree that it began in Italy around the begining to the middle of the 15th century. But perhaps we can get someone from the history section to chime in on this question.

If that was indeed the case, then some of the questions I have asked myself have revolved around WHY many of the images in the cards were changed from the Italian decks to the TDM. And the answers I have come up with all point to the differences in the particular cultural story-telling of the local populations. In this case, the most important and impactful history of the area (by a long shot) was the attempted annihilation and persecution of the Cathars in the region. Given this context, the symbols and images within the cards can all be interepreted, and make sense.

 

[venicebard]

As we can see - again, the appearance of the universal symbols used in the tarot renders the cards open to a wide variety of interpretations. One thing that seems reasonably certain to me is that these cards had a multitude of meanings, as they were used by a variety of people who, having their own individual cultural, historical and phsychological backgrounds, were most likely prone to place thier own "stamp" on these cards.

Certainly trump symbols have more than one level of interpretation, but the meanings that matter most are those instilled in them by their creators. For instance, the physiological balance to remain upright is part of the meaning of VIII Justice—8 being the atomic number of oxygen, the one atom-type without which there IS no up—as is the harvest-weighing role (indicated by prominence of the color yellow) of the scales she wields—since 8 is the number assigned by bards to F, fearn the alder, tree of the Corn Spirit (god of vegetative fertility, hence the source of our oxygen)—as is this trump’s (i.e. its letter’s)* physiological correlation with the head—obvious from the prominent way hers is outlined (this pointing to the beheading aspect of the myth of John Barleycorn)—as is the greater meaning of LAW (the old ‘dispensation’), which is what MAKES it the chief or head. Next to these profound aspects of the trump’s symbolism, any quirks of regional interpretation are only of passing historical (as opposed to metaphysical) concern, that is, having to do with the cards’ history after they appeared, not necessarily with meanings intentionally imbodied in them—though as poets, TdM’s creators were probably aware of the shape such regional interpretations would take, at least in regions with which they were familiar.


* In this case Hebrew samekh, for Judaic tradition attached to aries-the-head a sound (s) on the tip of the tongue (or zodiacal round), in place of a sound (f) out beyond it, the latter symbolic in Celtic tradition of the Corn Spirit’s sprouting out or up beyond the top or tip of the seed or tongue.

The problem with trying to record information relating to the Albigensian saga is that, during the time the tarot was being created, it was still considered a highly heretical topic - typically punished by death or life imprisonment. So, it would have been impossible for anyone to come out and present this in precise and unambiguous terms.

This is quite true, but I harbor the suspicion that the devisors of tarot found this a stimulating challenge, not a handicap, since poets are used to using an oblique manner of expression.

In regards to your comments of the origin of the tarot, most of the sources I have checked out agree that it began in Italy around the begining to the middle of the 15th century. But perhaps we can get someone from the history section to chime in on this question.

Okay, now I see where you’re coming from. Yes, this is the great handicap of the ‘history section’, that it is dominated by those with so little imagination that they believe “what you see is what you get,” that is, that because the earliest extant cards are Italian the tarot necessarily started in Italy. It is more than obvious to me that they could NOT have started in Italy, for it is north of the Alps that tarot had one, single, standard form—so standard that the printed numbers on trumps to indicate their rank were evidently added some time after the cards appeared (shown to be the case by AT’s own Le Pendu, alias Robert), since they obscure parts of certain details. Their ranks must have been commonly known in the earliest era of their use (in Provence), whiereas south of the Alps there were so many different varieties and orderings of trumps as to show they hadn’t a clue even to the proper order of trumps in Italy! meaning that the transmission evidently occurred before the printed numbers were added (their addition perhaps being a safeguard made necessary BY the presence of so many differing ways of ordering trumps not far to the south).

TdM being the standard block-printed deck of cards in the Provence/Lyons region (Rhone valley), old worn-out decks would simply have been discarded and replaced: the oldest block printed cards in Italy were found discarded in wells and cisterns. It is hardly a surprise that a painted parody (not even a very good one!) of tarot such as the Visconti-Sforza (or whatever that abomination is called), since it was not a deck of CARDS but rather a set of PAINTINGS, was NOT discarded and replaced: yet there must have been an ACTUAL deck for it to be a parody OF, n’est ce pas?

If that was indeed the case, then some of the questions I have asked myself have revolved around WHY many of the images in the cards were changed from the Italian decks to the TDM.

The very difficulty of such questions should be something of a hint that it is much easier to visualize a series of imperfect copyings of the TdM by Italians in their various regions than to think the Provençal culture so regimented that in copying the profuse variety of Italian ‘tarot’ arrangements they adopted ONE and STUCK TO IT come hell or high water! This would imply that only one variety ever made it north across the Alps, which seems a bit far fetched to me.