Watching Karma Play Out

[khatsar]

Karma seems to mean something different to everyone. I don't see a point in arguing semantics with people. There are variations in thought among Buddhists and Hindus themselves, after all.

I will say that our intentions come back to us in different ways. I've survived multiple types of abuse, unfortunately (sorry to hear others here have experienced these things as well). I believe that the energy we put out into the world ends up contributing (or taking away from) our soul's environment. You can't ball up a bunch of "bad energy," hurl it at someone, and think the residue won't stick to you, that it won't start festering. So I don't send anything to anyone that I wouldn't want to receive myself. It's not easy, because I am a petty boots.

I have definitely seen what happens when a person's ancestral guides revoke their protection. I believe our guides choose us for a reason...and if you ignore them long enough, they can decide to let the "character-building" stuff hit you. It's not total abandonment or the plagues of Egypt or anything, just...a loosening. The effects aren't bad luck, necessarily...but it's a depressive energy that can be felt. Some people who are in touch with their ancestors are often able to feel the flow, and even the words of generational karma. It is very powerful.

 

[Zephyros]

I agree with ravenest, Sulis, prudence and others... there's something so destructively petty about the "you'll get what you deserve" mindset. And ironically, it doesn't even exist in the Judeo-Christian ethos. Both the Old and New Testaments deal with the idea that judgement can come only from God ("lest you be judged," etc.). Maybe the "punishment" does come from God, karma, whatever, but who among us really can afford to "cast the first stone?"

And there's a lot of "karma" that can't be seen. We have all used products made in sweatshops, and the more money someone makes the higher the likelihood that sweatshop-production will creep into their homes. Where's the karma there? Either those children deserve their fate of working 23 hours a day, or their suffering doesn't count because it is too far away and abstract. Are all iPhone buyers punished horribly? Should they be?

Besides, I'm constantly surprised by New Age types who preach "love and light" and then turn around and gloat over the suffering of others, because they feel it is "deserved." I admit to being a peace-loving hippy pacifist who feels just as bad for killers as for their victims, but I can't resolve the two approaches. Smugness is ultimately a form of violence.

 

[Thoughtful]

Just read all of this very interesting thread.

If someone does harm to another the payback l feel would be within themselves, to themselves, not a form of punishment from an outside source.

You cannot hold the effects of bitterness, bullying and the like inside without it having some form of emotional or even physical effect on oneself.

You may not agree with this but l feel the only payback of bad actions, if not meted out in this life by our own actions, will surely come to roost when you pass on. There is no hell worse than at some point seeing what you have done to others. Coming to the realisation of what you have done and if with total remorse you feel sorry, striving to put it right maybe in a future life.

Someone like hitler for instance may still not be aware of his atrocities so would still be in that mind set. Until he acknowledges what he has done he can never surely know the beauty of a better existence. That's what l would call hell.

God/Universe/people do not punish, we eventually punish ourselves with the knowledge of our actions at some point, freewill in action.

 

[BodhiSeed]

I'm another that doesn't believe in the "you'll get yours" idea of karma. I tend to lean more towards the ideas that Jack Kornfield (Theravada Buddhist) expresses here:
http://www.jackkornfield.com/karma-habit/

 

[mingbop]

I believe that "like attracts like" ... and if a person's mind is bitter and dark and intent on badness - then badness is what they'll attract and get. And curses tend to boomerang.

 

[GotH]

I believe that "like attracts like" ... and if a person's mind is bitter and dark and intent on badness - then badness is what they'll attract and get. And curses tend to boomerang.

I totally agree with this. Anyone who has ever done any spell work knows this. Intention is everything.

 

[EmpressArwen]

Besides, I'm constantly surprised by New Age types who preach "love and light" and then turn around and gloat over the suffering of others, because they feel it is "deserved." I admit to being a peace-loving hippy pacifist who feels just as bad for killers as for their victims, but I can't resolve the two approaches. Smugness is ultimately a form of violence.

This is interesting to me...especially the part about "who feels just as bad for the killers as for their victims". I am the opposite. Life is about choices. We all want to hold hands and sing kumbaya but that isn't reality. It isn't smugness to be glad that someone is going to rot in prison for the rest of their life for crimes they committed...and I'm not talking about growing weed here. I'm talking premediated rape/murder. Screw them. Seriously, they made the choice to take away anothers freewill. They get what they get. If that makes me a horrible person, so be it. I feel what the victim feels, what their family feels, what it is like to have their own fate decided by a sicko. I think of "what would that feel like if that was my child who was raped and murdered?" I can feel nothing for the perpetrator but disgust.

I'm definitely not gloating over the suffering of a rapist/murderer by feeling this way. I believe in consequences for actions. You make a choice to hurt another...well, what goes around comes around.

Maybe you are a better more enlightened person than I am...I don't mean that flippantly, maybe you really are.

 

[RiverRunsDeep]

There have been a few times where I've seen certain people throw out really bad intent toward someone but get whacked over the head in the end.
Coincidence or karmic, have you ever witnessed something like this?

Definitely, yes! I used to work for a woman who ran a wellness center; she
sold New Age jewelry, meditation CDs, etc., and ran all kinds of spiritual
workshops, yet she was probably the least spiritual person I have ever met.
I would occasionally hear her on the phone, talking about people who had
"crossed" her, and how she was going to ruin and destroy their lives. She
actually had the local political connections to do such things. Within the
wellness center, she would back-stab the employees, turn people against
each other, and find crazy reasons for firing people, though most of us ended
up quitting in the end. I once got into a simple disagreement with her, and she
reported me to the police as being "hostile"!!!

Anyway, about a year after I quit, I found out that a fire had broken out at
her business. She lost absolutely everything. Honestly, I don't feel like I
was being smug, judgmental, or a rock-thrower in how I felt about that. I
was simply observing cause and effect: if you are going to act like a complete SH**, then the universe is going to SH** on you.

Besides, I'm constantly surprised by New Age types who preach "love and light" and then turn around and gloat over the suffering of others, because they feel it is "deserved." I admit to being a peace-loving hippy pacifist who feels just as bad for killers as for their victims, but I can't resolve the two approaches. Smugness is ultimately a form of violence.

But closrapexa, just because you feel bad for the killers doesn't make them
good people. It makes YOU a good person. Sure, we'd like to think of the
ideal situation and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, but the truth is:
true evil exists in this world, and some people are truly evil. People like that
don't give a damn about your forgiveness or your good intentions.

Consider if you were the victim, if you were the one about to be murdered or
raped. Would you stand there and think, "Well, they must have had a hard
life, so it's okay if they treat me however they want"?? Umm.......no.
You would deserve to defend yourself, and they would deserve to be on the
receiving end of that self defense.

 

[celticnoodle]

I believe that "like attracts like" ... and if a person's mind is bitter and dark and intent on badness - then badness is what they'll attract and get. And curses tend to boomerang.

I totally agree with this. Anyone who has ever done any spell work knows this. Intention is everything.

I started to reply to both these posts, then erased what I wrote, thinking I shouldn't. But, today, I just have to do so.

While I do for the most part agree with this and I also do wish/hope it is true, I do know of people (and one in particular person that is my circle of family-friends) who is VERY difficult. Very mean spirited and nasty. Two faced. Conniving and untrustworthy. She steals, she lies, she LOVES to cause problems and is at her happiest when she can get people in her 'group' to gang up on a person. She honestly does seem to pick out ONE person, in particular at any one time, and will convince the others in the group to pick on this person--and is merciless. I mean, this woman is a real nasty piece of work.

I've seen her at work--and have often been the prey myself. The running joke between the rest of us was, "well, its your turn this week, so at least the rest of us will get a rest". She will be nice and sweet to your face, and the minute you leave, she is bad mouthing you something awful! The thing is, it RARELY seems to come back to her!

People do all they can for her, bring her gifts, take her out to eat, take her on free vacations, and help her where/when ever she needs it. So, why is it that she doesn't seem to get the dark nasties back? Its not that I wish it would happen to her, I just wish she would be nice. I've known this woman for a very, very long time and she has ALWAYS been like this. Even her sister once told me that she was always a pain in the a$$.

I feel badly for her too, that she is so negative and mean and stoops so low to hurt others and then sit back and enjoy that persons pain. I often pray for her, that she will change--but I've been praying for her for years and haven't yet seen a change.

So, while I do generally believe that like attracts like, I wonder how it fits in for this particular woman and whhy doesn't it seem to come back to her? I am glad she has good people-family & friends around her to help her when it is called for and glad she has good things in her life. But, I do just wish she'd stop being such a pita too.

What do you think it is with people like this lady? Why do they always come out smelling like a rose? Or is it building up to just be piled on her later? (which I hope not, honestly). I don't like her, but I do feel very sorry for her--which is why I put up with her being in the group when we all do get together. She's been a part of this group before I even joined in with them, but from what I understand, she has always been this way and the others just put up with it. *sigh*

 

[G6]

I started to reply to both these posts, then erased what I wrote, thinking I shouldn't. But, today, I just have to do so.

While I do for the most part agree with this and I also do wish/hope it is true, I do know of people (and one in particular person that is my circle of family-friends) who is VERY difficult. Very mean spirited and nasty. Two faced. Conniving and untrustworthy. She steals, she lies, she LOVES to cause problems and is at her happiest when she can get people in her 'group' to gang up on a person. She honestly does seem to pick out ONE person, in particular at any one time, and will convince the others in the group to pick on this person--and is merciless. I mean, this woman is a real nasty piece of work.

I've seen her at work--and have often been the prey myself. The running joke between the rest of us was, "well, its your turn this week, so at least the rest of us will get a rest". She will be nice and sweet to your face, and the minute you leave, she is bad mouthing you something awful! The thing is, it RARELY seems to come back to her!

People do all they can for her, bring her gifts, take her out to eat, take her on free vacations, and help her where/when ever she needs it. So, why is it that she doesn't seem to get the dark nasties back? Its not that I wish it would happen to her, I just wish she would be nice. I've known this woman for a very, very long time and she has ALWAYS been like this. Even her sister once told me that she was always a pain in the a$$.

I feel badly for her too, that she is so negative and mean and stoops so low to hurt others and then sit back and enjoy that persons pain. I often pray for her, that she will change--but I've been praying for her for years and haven't yet seen a change.

So, while I do generally believe that like attracts like, I wonder how it fits in for this particular woman and whhy doesn't it seem to come back to her? I am glad she has good people-family & friends around her to help her when it is called for and glad she has good things in her life. But, I do just wish she'd stop being such a pita too.

What do you think it is with people like this lady? Why do they always come out smelling like a rose? Or is it building up to just be piled on her later? (which I hope not, honestly). I don't like her, but I do feel very sorry for her--which is why I put up with her being in the group when we all do get together. She's been a part of this group before I even joined in with them, but from what I understand, she has always been this way and the others just put up with it. *sigh*

I've been wondering about this too as some awful people never seem to have experiences to change their awful behavior. Maybe that is the punishment in itself. My thought is that people that do that are at base deeply insecure. They derive their self worth from trying to bring others down. How sad it must be to be them, right? So, outwardly it may appear that they are gliding through life with no negative consequences for the harm they do, but the bigger picture is look at who they are and what their mental space is like to engage with others in that way.

I don't know that I've seen hard evidence that every negative cause has a negative effect and although it would be great if there was cosmic atonement in all of these situations, but I don't see that happening either. I think the best approach is to stand in your power. You only have control over your actions and I have found that narcissists and bullies hate being ignored. If you walk away from them or rob them of the response they desire that is the best way to deal with it.

I heard something recently that stuck with me. People in our lives are either a mirror, a crystal ball or an angel. Meaning they show you something within yourself that you need to work on/heal, they show you who you might become or what might happen (think violence, legal action, etc.) if you continue involvement with them or they bring you a message that is helpful to you.

I hope some of this helps you as I know this is a difficult situation. For me, I physically and emotionally walk away from negative people. If there is the slightest hint that they don't know how to process their insecurities in a healthy way ultimately they will rob you of your joy and bring you nothing but pain. If you are a healer you will attract these type of people, so it is in your best interest to be very aware of this dynamic and protect yourself first and foremost.

I hope this helps.