Lots of things to respond to here, so I think I'll just go through one by one.
closrapexa said:
I interpret the cards mainly using astrology and Kabbalah, but even those I don't see as remotely supernatural. They are both intellectual structures for the ordering and cataloging of ideas.
I very much agree with you on this point. When I first started reading Tarot, I learned independently of these two systems--I did a little bit with the elemental dignities and some basic numerology, but for the most part it was just a matter of learning the RWS meanings of the 78 cards. When I
did start reading with astrology and the Kabbalah, I actually came at it a bit backwards; I don't really use those systems in my readings, but I use my understanding of Tarot to inform my subsequent understanding of them. Both of these systems were always a bit difficult for me to get at, in part because they seemed kind of arbitrary. (For example, I still don't love the way the paths of the Tree of Life are assigned to Tarot in Crowley's
777.) But working with Tarot, I'm able to come at the issue(s) from another angle. Knowing what I do about the elemental dignities in Tarot, for example, makes it easier for me to understand the four worlds of Kabbalah. And so on, and so forth.
But anyways, I'm wandering a bit. The point is that I, like you, see both astrology and Kabbalah as intellectual systems that can be applied to help with a personal understanding of events, thoughts, or what have you.
3ill.yazi said:
I don't feel the cards inherently have power, which probably makes them easier to reconcile with my particular faith (Jewish).
I see them more as tools to sharpen or focus one's intuition. Hence I don't really follow some of the customs surrounding the care of the cards. They are just paper.
With you all the way on this. Like Alta, I ground my work with the cards in an initial intellectual framework and then allow my intuition to take the rest of it. When I started with Tarot (again; you're getting a lot of personal history in here, so I'm sorry if this isn't interesting or relevant to you) I was leery of "intuitive" reading. I've always felt that it was a bit too easy to go off the deep end with intuitive Tarot reading and abandon the prescribed meaning of the cards altogether--say, for example, that you turn up the Death card and you say it means that there's no significant change on the horizon. But I think that as long as intuition is balanced by an ordered, rational understanding of what each card means, it can add a lot to a reading, so I've been working in recent years to add a bit more of that reading style into my work with Tarot.
I'm also with you regarding a lot of the conventions that people have about their Tarot decks. I also feel that the cards are "just paper". I'll keep them clean and avoid ripping them, but, for example, I have no problem with people other than myself handling my cards, I'll read with a deck I bought as easily as with one that was given to me, and so on.
nisaba said:
Tarot produces meaningful information whether I believe in anything or not.
So yes, although I have very strongly-held beliefs, my Tarot practice is essentially atheist in nature - I have a tool, and I use it. It performs the way you'd expect a tool designed to do the job would perform.
I think I understand what you're saying, although I think my practice is a little different from yours. I'm not sure that (for my readings; I'm not trying to cast aspersions on your reading style whatsoever, so please forgive me and let me know if it comes across that way) I would agree with the statement that "Tarot produces meaningful information". The way I think about it, it's more that
I produce meaningful information, and I happen to do so by looking at a set of images that are, themselves, devoid of meaning. It's kind of like playing connect-the-dots with a star map and coming up with a configuration that looks like someone pouring water out of a jug. You can connect the image to the myth of Ganymede, ascribe a myth and meaning to it, and then interpret it in a way that would affect your actions in the material world, but I'm not sure that I, personally, would believe that the "meaningful" image of Aquarius actually
exists in the stars. It's just that I happened to see it in a randomly produced pattern, and then chose to make something meaningful out of it.
(I hope that analogy made sense. Let me know if it missed the target.)
nisaba said:
So how do you account for being able to produce detailed and meaningful readings for a total stranger who has just sat down in front of you, and about whom you know nothing and of whom you ask for no information?
Ha, well, that's the thing. I don't produce detailed or meaningful readings for strangers about whom I have been given no information. I know there are readers who can do this, but I am simply not one of them. I always ask for as much information as I can have before I start a reading, and I really don't feel comfortable if I have to read without some context. On those occasions (such as with some online readings) where I
do have to perform a reading without obtaining any additional information, I always feel like I'm working blind. To me, at that point, I'm stumbling through the dark, and I personally feel like my readings are more a matter of guesswork than of me actually providing relevant insight using the Tarot. I suppose it's largely a matter of personal style and what each reader is comfortable with.
nisaba said:
And I have a problem with predicting things. "You will meet a tall, dark, handsome stranger on Tuesday." Yeah? What if you stay in all day and don't open the door or answer the phone? "You will have a car accident in January." Yeah? If you sell your car in December and don't buy a new one until February, riding your bicycle or catching trains everywhere instead?
I'm definitely with you. From what I've seen, even readers who do use Tarot for fortune-telling will always emphasize the importance of personal action in determining the future. Few and far between are those who would claim that you are destined to meet a tall, dark stranger at the bus stop nearest your home at exactly 4:17 PM on October 3rd, regardless of whether you go to that bus stop at that time. The predictive readings I've seen have often been more contingent on personal choice--things like "If you pursue this relationship, you're likely to end up getting hurt". Now, this is still something that I try to avoid in my readings, but I definitely find it much easier to understand how readers would feel comfortable making this kind of prediction.
nisaba said:
I use Tarot to identify problem-areas (that they haven't told me about) and potential solutions or at least ways of avoiding or lessening the problems. I use Tarot to identify their opportunities (that they haven't told me about), and to find practical ways to maximise it in their lives.
I think we're more or less on the same page. I'm probably more inclined to try to show a different perspective on opportunities that a querent is already aware of (rather than new ones they don't know about), but we seem to agree fundamentally that the primary goal of Tarot is to provide useful insight that will let people make positive changes in their lives.
