Astrological Reading Methods for Pips

[Bernice]

Thank you for the Temperament Experiment link Mel. Wish I'd come across it before - poor thing's been buried.

I do see your reasoning now, and it has the validity of historical foundations.

However, for myself at this time, I think I prefer to go along with these Temperaments for the suits as 'classes of people/society' rather than suit 'characteristics', if you see what I mean. Still uncertain about suit-elements....

Hi Scion! Good to see/hear you here

Bee

 

[Bernice]

Well, I've ammended the suit+pip values diagram a wee bit. Starred the pip-numbers that I think may correspond with 'crisis' - or a turning point of some kind.

Note that this is not given in Mels Method, as such, but he does comment that the 7s were considered 'crisis point' according to Pythagoras, and I think he favours Pythag'. I've not starred all the suit 7s because of the way the value-system works.

pics here

Bee

 

[Melanchollic]

Hi Bee,

When I try to view the above pics link, I get asked for a user name and password!?

 

[Bernice]

Fixed it (the link). I hope!

Bee

 

[Melanchollic]

Hi Bee,

Yes, the link is working.

What's your reasoning behind the 3 of Swords, and the 3 of Batons being representative of 'crisis' ?

 

[Bernice]

Very simply (and I do mean, dead simple ):

1) They are at the same point on the start-wheel.
2) The 3s (for me) are creative.
3) If the low pips of the Swords & batons arn't 'good', then their 3s are likely to be in the process of hatching something unwelcome.

More could be said, but that's the brief version.

Bee

 

[Melanchollic]

Very simply (and I do mean, dead simple ):

1) They are at the same point on the start-wheel.
2) The 3s (for me) are creative.
3) If the low pips of the Swords & batons arn't 'good', then their 3s are likely to be in the process of hatching something unwelcome.

More could be said, but that's the brief version.

Bee

Yes, I see what you mean.

I've nicknamed the Three of Swords, the Re-Balancer! It brings a swift, and sometimes horrible justice in its wake. It can be a reckoning, a retribution, a retaliation, a revenge. 1

I call the 3 of Batons, "lack of readiness". It shows labors and tasks that never come together properly, due to lack of preparation. 2



M

____________________________________________​

Notes:

1) The Sword is Choleric and Fiery, and grows more malefic as the numbers descend, hence the 3 will be quite negative.

The 3 has been called unifying of opposites. It is both the completion to, and the mean between the duality of the 1 and the 2. The 3 works like Elemental Air in alchemy, unifying the duality of Fire (1) and Water (2).

If we take the energy of the 3 to be like Air (Sanguine) and the nature of the Sword to be like Fire (Choleric) then we can say the 3 of Swords is Sanguine-Choleric (Fiery Air). Air and Fire share the common Power of Heat. Aristotle says Heat is separating and expansive. Heat expresses itself through a fast reaction. This fast aggressive Heat is expressed through the 3 as a swift and violent balancing of opposing parties, hence, the Re-Balancer.



2) Again, 3s function like Elemental Air. Batons are like Elemental Earth, the element of labor.
The 3 of Batons then is Sanguine-Melancholic (Earth/Air). Earth and Air are opposites, and share no common Powers. As Batons are slightly malefic, and like Swords, grow more so toward the smaller numbers, the random unrelated Powers can never be brought to work together.

The 1 is like an IMPULSE. The 2 is like the OBJECT of the impulse. The 3 is the PROCESS that unifies the two, resulting in the EFFECT of the 4. The laborious energy of the Baton resists the formative parts from unifying, so the process is labored, and begins without the contradictions being resolved. The premature engaging of the process makes the effect (one's goal) difficult to achieve.

 

[Bernice]

Three Swords = The Re-Balancer. (This really is a crisis. An engulfing flare-up, its' end result will be the resolution - no leeway here!. (?))

Three Batons = Lack of Readiness. (And here is an issue/situation with little chance of reaching a mutual resolution. Lacks cohesion/combination (For me the 3's are about 'creativity' & also 'combination'.))

That's great Mel!

Will find some way to incorporate this into the diagram (or make a new one...). I like diagrams ( ), enables me to see the 'whole' of something.

Surprised and pleased that these 3s fit so well into the number system you refer to. Love the nicknames

Bee

EDIT: I've also been thinking about the 5s. I would prefer to incorporate my understanding of this number, but I'm not sure how valid it would be in this system.

For me, the 5s are about 'coordination'. Management; Organization (in a general sense); Necessary activities to promote smooth functioning etc.

......

 

[Melanchollic]

That's great Mel!

I've also been thinking about the 5s. I would prefer to incorporate my understanding of this number, but I'm not sure how valid it would be in this system.

For me, the 5s are about 'coordination'. Management; Organization (in a general sense); Necessary activities to promote smooth functioning etc.

......

I think your reflections of the 5s would be perfectly "valid in this system". 'Coordination', 'organization', 'smooth functioning' etc, are fairly similar to the classical views of the 5 as being the number of partnership (marriage), a universal mean, and characteristic of fairness (justice).


M

____________________________________________​

Notes:

The 5 was generally known in the Platonic and Pythagorean traditions as "the marriage number" (2+3=5), the 'offspring' of the first 'odd' number, and the 'first 'even' number.

It seems to function as a universal mean. Whatever you use to add up to 10, 5 will be found to be the arithmetic mean.


1...4...7
2...5...8
3...6...9


The Neoplatonic tradition made much of the Pentad (5) as being Justice. The Theology of Arithmetic (4th cent. AD) contains several pages on the Pentad's relation to Justice.

Since the Pentad occurs in the exact center of the tetractys of addition, as well as in the middle of the single-digit numbers from one to nine, it therefore is balance and equality. Iamblichus explains that Justice can not be correctly revealed in an even number, since they cannot have a mean, but clearly in an odd number. The Pythagoreans define Justice thus, "The power of repayment of what is equal and appropriate, being encompassed by the mean of a square odd number."1

The Ennead (9) is the first square odd number, and the only one in the single-digit numbers. It's mean is of course the Pentad (5).

Iamblichus' Analogy of the Scales:

..................................................l
..................................................l
..................................................l
...................................2...3...4... 5 ...6...7...8...
................................l....................................l
................................l....................................l

...............................1....................................9
.............................____...............................____


Tetractys

......1
....2...3
..4...5...6
7...8...9..10


1. Iamblichus, The Theology of Arithmetic (tr. Robin Waterfield), Grand Rapids, Phanes Press, 1988. pp.70

 

[Bernice]

In this system, if we were to assign 'qualities' to each number they would have to comply with the suit-value, and the value assessment would preceed the number-quality. Yes?

Because the 5s stand at the same position for all four suits, I'm tentatively considering them as having the same import. i.e. The smooth functioning of all factors - coordination. Hence also management, organisation etc. Active. (5s = a need to be 'doing', engaging in something, pursuing an objective.).

This isn't quite the same as Union. But a 'functioning composite' is pretty close.

So here are my current thoughts (using the diagram):

5 Cups: Fair. Breaking even: Seems like keeping an eye on things and making minor adjustments with a beneficial/pleasing objective in view. The objective or focus would depend on what/who the card represents, the query, the house etc.

5 Coins: Problems: This looks as if it might be 'interrupted coordination'. Hitches, delays, a spanner in the works. So perhaps could mean hands on intervention(s) to promote workable functioning. Or it may indicate that the interruption or problem is caused by whatever/whoever this card represents. (Something/one out of line?)

5 Batons: Labouring: This strikes me as being burdened with duties or concerns (real or imagined) that require constant attention in order to 'keep on track'. Expending energy to prevent fracture. (Threat of fracture?)

5 Swords: Difficult: Coordination is in shambles. Hard put to achieve tolerable functioning. (Actions or behaviour dictated by uncompromising conditions.)

...........

Any other thoughts re. number qualities?

Bee