Cults, mind games and brainwashing

[Demon Goddess]

No one person in this world, I don't care if they claim to be the Second Coming of Christ, the Buddha, or a superior alien sent to save the planet, has all the answers. As soon as someone says they do, I turn in the other direction.

Isn't that interesting? It is solely that claim (that they have "all the answers", that I reject all organized religion with the sole exclusion of Unitarian Universalism. But UUA teaches us to read those books, examine those theologies in order to find our own understandings and beliefs.

Fwiw, Unitarian Universalism has been called a cult too.

 

[Nevada]

Isn't that interesting? It is solely that claim (that they have "all the answers", that I reject all organized religion with the sole exclusion of Unitarian Universalism. But UUA teaches us to read those books, examine those theologies in order to find our own understandings and beliefs.

I agree, about most churches, and it so happens I decided a long time ago that if I ever joined another church it would likely be UUA. But I'm not a joiner. I'm still, 30+ years later, surprised I ever joined that one. But I was at an age where I really wanted the social involvement. A once in a lifetime phase for me, apparently.

Nevada

 

[Demon Goddess]

I decided a long time ago that if I ever joined another church it would likely be UUA. But I'm really not a joiner. I'm still, 30+ years later, surprised I ever joined that one. But I was at an age where I really wanted the social involvement. A once in a lifetime phase for me, apparently.

Nevada

It's the social involvement that is most important to me. I love being a member of my church... I love that everyone has their own personal religious beliefs that may or may not even subscribe to anything even so much as written down somewhere. I love that our members are more important than the collective power of all of our G-d(s).

ETA, I think a weak person could be sucked in by just that... The dogma for a non-thinking person might be ignorable if someone is intensely lonely... I suppose THAT has some power for cults. In fact, I'm sure of it.

 

[Nevada]

I should add, in fact I should've said in my first post, that what I referred to as "cult" is actually what I think of as a destructive cult. I assume that's what Milfoil also meant, destructive cults rather than the older definition of any religious group as a cult.

A church that claims it's the only true church doesn't qualify on that basis alone as a destructive cult, in my view, though some are clearly straddling the line.

The leader of a destructive cult will typically try to get his followers to see him as personally critical to their salvation or pursuit of Truth. Some even use extortion in one form or another to keep members faithful. I've heard such rumors about Scientology, but I don't know if the rumors are true.

Some interesting links to ponder on the definition of "cult" versus "destructive cult" --

Google: Definitions of cult on the Web

Wikipedia: Cult

Religioustolerance.org: Definitions of terms: Cults, Sects and Denominations

Nevada

 

[re-pete-a]

Anything taken to the point where self expression, change in viewpoints and seculsion of others, is a cult. That includes publicly accepted and popular age old ones as well. BUT ,BUT!! how does one know without experiencing? . There are generalisations and types that fit into known belief catagories. The others need to be examined both from inside the needing self and the information offered. The flocking or gathering or herding feeling does need to be addressed.
Until that time all beliefs are a start on the road to self discovery. So lets celebrate the independance gained so far, You gotta admit WOW ! WHATTA RIDE!!

 

[Mellifluous]

I just recommended this book (yet again, lol) in another thread but it's so relevant to this topic! Charlotte Kasl's Many Roads, One Journey is, in part, about this issue, with the focus on 12 step groups. Chapter 12, specifically, is devoted to identifying healthy and dysfunctional groups in general. That chapter includes lists of positive and negative group traits and addresses the 'cult' issue as well. I agree with it to such a large extent that I wish I'd written it myself. lol

Some of the standout negative traits of dysfunctional groups or cults are

-insisting their way is THE way, and an inability to see the group itself from a larger perspective
-using a lot of internal jargon and a tendency towards robotic speech
-punishing or strongly discouraging dissension and independent thought
-discouraging outside reading material, exploration of other paths, and involvement with outsiders in general

There are others as well.

The whole book is great, so if anyone is curious about it I do recommend it.

 

[Milfoil]

I should add, in fact I should've said in my first post, that what I referred to as "cult" is actually what I think of as a destructive cult. I assume that's what Milfoil also meant, destructive cults rather than the older definition of any religious group as a cult.

Not even sure I do mean just the distructive stuff, but anything which leads us away from truth.

Now there's a difficult concept - truth.

To me, anything which has been filtered through a human being (ie writings, doctrine, channeled information) basically someone elses take on what all this is about, has been tainted in some way, however slight.

Difficult as it is, we each stand alone and by standing alone, sometimes we connect with the Universe/Creator/Jehova/Wakan Taka on a deep and profound level which is untainted through or by anthing else.

I appreciate that we can all need help, direction, a place to start from but eventually we have to stand on our own and state our OWN beliefs and intentions.

It could be that each person's truth is THE truth in their universe and the rest of us may agree on many aspects but disagree on others - who knows?

Destructive or not, peaceful or not, any system which binds us to something written by another human being has the capacity to be essentially flawed for anyone else hence my questions.

 

[Milfoil]

The day that the entire human race agrees on the one, universal spiritual truth as it is written, is the day I follow someone elses teaching and join the masses.

 

[re-pete-a]

Ok Milfoil There is one universal truth to follow, Breathe in, breathe out , but only if you want to. Even in that, there's questions to be asked ,. For how long?, How deep? Where's the truth in that? Seems there's is no peace in asking. Also no peace in peace, that too will be asked about.

 

[PAMUYA]

I've been wondering where do we draw the line between a legitimate belief and giving our power away to someone elses 'truth'?

I've always worked on the theory that if it works experientially the belief would be sound, ie, lets say in meditation or deep prayer, one has an experience which one perceives as a message and the portent of that message is borne out in life experiences thereafer.

Blind faith without personal experience, accepting someone elses word or the contents of a book, however compelling, without question or 'needing' to feel accepted within a framework in order to give ones life meaning are not good reasons (to me) to follow someone elses spiritual path.

But then I thought, if I was directed by an inner experience or external messages to follow a certain path - that would be both experiential AND following someone elses ideas.

So how do we guard against being brainwashed or falling into the 'cult' mindset?

Many things appear wholesome and founded in the best intent yet when looked at from an outside perspective, by those who do not share or need the message contained therein, these same courses or ideas are clearly manipulative.

Some are a dead giveaway or seemingly so. Scientology for example, yet if they are SO obvious, why do people join?

I guess what I am asking is how we, each of us personally, quantify what we will and will not accept on a spiritual journey? When does a great idea become a mind game?

If we are searching for answers, which many of us are, are we all aware of the pitfalls or do we check in our brains at the door of the new-found system?

I think anytime you join an organization or group (such as this one) there are influences..suggested readings, ect. Fitting in is important to people, being social with like minded, a need to belong, to be liked. EVERY board has it's clicks and people will conform, to feel that they are part of the group. This is human nature. We are influenced by the music we listen to, TV, books, our organizations, and the forums we belong to. None of us can say we are truely independent thinkers or are free of influences. Daily Tarot readings is a form of mind game, it can influence decisions we make that day.

This is a great question:

"I've been wondering where do we draw the line between a legitimate belief and giving our power away to someone elses 'truth'?"

By the time we are through elemantary school it's too late unless we were a hermit, to have not been exposed to so many other's "truth" is a legitimate independent belief possible? A cult type mindset (cult: Cult typically refers to a cohesive social group devoted to beliefs or practices that the surrounding culture considers outside the mainstream, with a notably positive or negative popular perception), in which we are all a part of in one way or another: Are you rebelling, or accepting the beliefs what you have been brought up with? What are your motives for finding this truth? Is it a need to belong? Belonging is a big factor..did anyone read all the responces to the last contest, having a place to belong was the most popular answer.

Using Tarot is considered by many as being a part of a cult minded group. We have a common belief in what the cards mean, we have common spreads, we believe in intuition, amoung many other things. It is a belief system, we have conformed to it, some having Tarot certficates and business licences.

What is the "Truth"? There is no truth, it's about filling that void, that need inside of you, why am "I" here? "I" the me.. Am "I" important? Can "I" make a difference?

This is just my humble opinion, take it for what's it worth...

As you can see "I" am struggling with this question myself, seeking the answers to my personal "truths".