Historical question re the minor arcana

[Huck]

Diana asked, “Catboxer pointed out that originally the minor arcana didn't have any intrinsic symbolic meanings, as they started out as playing cards…”

I think before the question is examined, it should be expanded.

When did cartomancy with a 52 card deck begin?

Oldest evidence ca. 1505 by two German printed books in Mainz/Strassburg. The relative primitive version (each card is given with a small poem of 8 lines); the system and parts of the poem are an imitation of an Losbuch from 1485, printed by Martin Flach. Similar Losbuch-systems, however, might be much older. As the number of printed (and surviving) texts should be regarded still as small, there is naturally no guarantee, that a system, which used also cards, existed much earlier (but didn't survive), perhaps already before the book printing time. Bollstetter collected 1450 - 1473 about 10-13 divination systems, which somehow were around (none used cards).

http://trionfi.com/0/p/41/

Did the 52 card deck precede or follow the Tarot?

All, what the existing evidence gives reason to conclude, the 52 card deck preceded the Tarot.

1377 Johannes of Rheinfelden knew the 4x13-deck.
http://trionfi.com/0/p/10

1418-1425 The Michelino-deck is the first object, which might be identified as an "rather unusual Trionfi deck" (16 trumps, unusual suits, only kings as courts)
http://trionfi.com/0/b/

1505: First evidence of the word Taraux and Tarocchi.
http://trionfi.com/0/p/23

Did the 52 card deck as we know it begin with 56 cards?

The earliest decks noted (Johannes) didn't knew 4x14-decks - which don't say too much about that, what possibly had been. Structural information (which give clear insight about the deck-structure) is rare in the early time - often
decks have survived incomplete and very seldom there is a deocument, which tells the number of the used cards or the numbers of the suits.

Catboxer (or his source) is not correct in his statement - 4x14 decks existed.

http://trionfi.com/0/j/d/ambras/
Ambraser Hofjagdspiel
Location/Time: upper Rhine, Schreiber dates 1445/1455, nowadays often 1440/45 are given
Structure: 56 cards, 4x14, King Queen, Ober (all on horse, Obers are male), Unter (beside horse), Banner, 1-9
Suits: Hunting Tool, Hawks, Dogs, Stags

And the deck of Master PW survived wit a 5x14-structure.

Just adding something to the original question: already Johannes of Rheinfelden knew cards, in which specific iconographical design (let's call it "interpretable content") was added to the pip cards. A lot of the German decks in 15th/16th century, also the Boiardo Tarocchi (pips contained texts), fulfilled this condition also.

 

[dios]

I mean historic (translated) documented references in the Moorish world. What information has been made public in the area where the 'Mamluk' cards seem to originate from. Exactly these references are strikingly missing, as far as I am aware.

We have the examples of the early Moorish cards and we have some early written references in Europe, but no historic Moorish references.

I can hardly imagine that there is no interest in the Islamic world to study historic references and consequently to make some facts public. These are the sources I would like to compare.

 

[dios]

There have been a number of references to Mamluk cards in these threads in the past, though I'm not sure if that is what you are after.

My previous reply, was a reply to jmd, I forgot to quote. I am not so familiar with questions and replies in forums.

 

[Huck]

I mean historic (translated) documented references in the Moorish world. What information has been made public in the area where the 'Mamluk' cards seem to originate from. Exactly these references are strikingly missing, as far as I am aware.

We have the examples of the early Moorish cards and we have some early written references in Europe, but no historic Moorish references.

I can hardly imagine that there is no interest in the Islamic world to study historic references and consequently to make some facts public. These are the sources I would like to compare.

... ... find them, translate them, then they're not missing

http://trionfi.com/0/p/22/

Here you find a link to the relevant article of Mayer in 1939, who made one of these decks known to the western world.

 

[Ross G Caldwell]

Hi dios,

you could start with Mahdi Roschanzamir's article "Card Games" in the Encyclopedia Iranica
http://www.iranica.com/newsite/
(search "card")

(There is also an online version of page facsimiles, showing the diacritcals, but I can't find it now.)

Dummett, "The Game of Tarot", p. 42 (1980), knows of three references in "medieval" Arabic literature to Kanjifa (various spellings).

"So far, three references to playing cards are known from mediaeval Arabic literature. One is from the Thousand and One Nights, despite the frequent assertions to the contrary in modern writings on playing cards."
(this reference is from the story of Tawaddud, nights 460-461 - Ross)
"Another is from the sixteenth-century writer Ibn Hajar al-Haytami (1504-1567). The most important is a passage in the Annals of Ibn Taghri-Birdi (a history of the Mamluk rulers from 1382-1469) to which attention was first drawn by Mme Laila Serageddin. In this, the future Sultan al-Malik al-Mu'ayyad is recorded to have won a large sum of money in a game of cards in about the year 1400 (the date is not precisely given). This confirms that playing cards were known in Mamluk Egypt at a date not long after their first appearance in Europe."

Note that strictly speaking, none of these sources are "mediaeval" (European medieval that is - the concept is not really appropriate to Muslim chronology).

I don't know that any other Arabic or Persian sources for the earliest period have been found since. I think much remains to be discovered, but there are few people with the background and means necessary to do this kind of research.

Ross

 

[DoctorArcanus]

"So far, three references to playing cards are known from mediaeval Arabic literature. One is from the Thousand and One Nights, despite the frequent assertions to the contrary in modern writings on playing cards."
(this reference is from the story of Tawaddud, nights 460-461 - Ross)

I searched for the Thousand and One Nights reference to cards on the internet, but I could not identify the relevant passage.
I also find interesting Dummet's reference to the fact that this reference is not commonly accepted.
Ross, do you have more information?

Marco

 

[kwaw]

I searched for the Thousand and One Nights reference to cards on the internet, but I could not identify the relevant passage.

quote:
“O Tawaddud, there is one thing left of that for which thou didst engage, namely, chess.” And he sent for experts of chess and cards* and trictrac. The chess-player sat down before her, and they set the pieces, and he moved and she moved; but, every move he made she speedily countered,—And Shahrazad perceived the dawn of day and ceased saying her permitted say.

*The Arabic term used in original is “Kanjifah”=a pack of cards; corrupted from the Persian “Ganjífah.” We know little concerning the date or origin of this game in the East, where the packs are quite unlike ours.

End quote from:
http://ebooks.adelaide.edu.au/b/burton/richard/b97b/part53.html

Kwaw

 

[Huck]

Simon Wintle gives the following notes at his website:

http://www.wopc.co.uk/history/earlyrefs.html

c.1400 EGYPT A passage in Ibn Taghri-Birdi's "Annals of Egypt and Syria" (dealing with events of the year 1417-1418) mentions that the future sultan al-Malik al-Mu'ayyad won a large sum of money in a game of cards. This confirms that playing cards were known in Mamluk Egypt not long after they first appeared in Europe. The text reads:

"The reason for the seizure of the aforementioned Akba'i [the governor of Syria residing in Damascus] was that the Sultan al-Malik al-Mu'ayyad [reigned from 1412 to 1427] had, in the days when he was emir, purchased a youth for 2000 dirhams which he had won playing 'kanjafah' [or 'kanjifah']. Al-Malik al-Mu'ayyad was at that time a qa'id and he was playing cards with one of his comrades and had won many dirhams from this man. Then the aforementioned Akba'i was brought into his presence together with his dealer. He [al-Mu'ayyad] was taken with him and he purchased him. The dealer then sought out his [al-Mu'ayyad's] bursar in order to collect the price of the aforementioned Akba'i, but he could not find him; so al-Mu'ayyad himself paid him the price from the dirhams which he had won gambling..."

The name of the game -- 'Kanjafah' -- is apparently of Persian origin, and from this extract it can be seen that it was a gambling game involving high stakes. Al-Mu'ayyad was appointed emir in 1399, and elected sultan in 1412, and so the account refers to somewhere within these dates.

####

I've edited a website with this data, I hope anybody agres:

http://trionfi.com/0/p/96/

Would be nice to have also something about the third note from 16th century.

In a journey to Jerusalem around 1480 Felix Fabri observed occasionally playing habits at the boat:

http://trionfi.com/0/p/29/

 

[jmd]

Interesting - in my four volume Mandrus and Mathers translation, I cannot find it (at least near the sections mentioned) - but online, I found it at the said day:

"So the Caliph ordered him fresh clothes and said, "O Tawaddud, there is one thing left of that for which thou didst engage, namely, chess." And he sent for experts of chess and cards and trictrac."​

Cf http://www.mythfolklore.net/1001nights/burton/abu_tawaddud.htm and search for 'card'

 

[kwaw]

Both links are to an online transription of the Burton translation, does anyone here have a copy of the Burton translation and if so can they confirm this parapraph is in the printed version of Burton's translation?