Interpreting Minors in Marseilles Decks

[frelkins]

Hmm. You want to know how to do timing with the geomantic figures?!?

Nope. Thanks for the offer tho'!

Some interesting 'fits', like ALBUS and the Hermit, CARCER and the Hanged Man, a few of them felt rather forced though.

This, most definitely! Timing the TdM minors with Mel's correspondences. Yeah, please. What feels forced to you might still be enlightening to the rest of us mere mortals. . .

 

[Melanchollic]

I posted the (highly speculative) tarot/geomancy correspondences last year, here:


http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=1107017&postcount=5


M

 

[Bernice]

Mel has said, "take what you need from my toolbox" - or words to that effect. So due thanks go to you for sharing this method Mel It's a good 'un.

But for those who are more astologically inclined - or who would like to have a bit more understanding of the houses (which in some systems arn't even used):

8th House (scorpio natural ruler):
Medically speaking, this is the house that rules the reproductive processes - the transformation of the fertilized egg into foetus, and the expulsion of the baby from the body in the birth process.

This is primarily why I considered the 'birth question' chart to be negative.
However, this wouldn't have any significance with Mels approach if the card in the 8th did'nt figure in the Passings and Translations etc.

Bee

 

[frelkins]

Thanx for the link Mel. Now I see how you have assigned Trumps to the figures. How does that relate the Trumps to exact days? Do you have a good link for that, please?

 

[Melanchollic]

But for those who are more astologically inclined - or who would like to have a bit more understanding of the houses...

Good thinking, Bee.

Here's a link to Lilly's descriptions of the houses:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/lilly_houses.html


M

 

[Bernice]

Thanks for the link Mel. And yes, I am aware of Lillys method(s). Everyone & his wife seem to be using it now, along with the Placidean house system, however this has been given as 'the standard/correct' house system for some years now. BUMP

I don't use placidean for the house cusps, nor do I use Lilly. Astologers, like cartomancers, find a system that works for them. And all astrogers don't use Lilly, in the same way that all cartomancers don't use RWS - like you!

The human body (and it's bits & pieces) can be seen in an astrological chart, with or without a house system (planets and the major angles only), as you well know Mel But with only the houses, as in your system, I would look to the 8th / 2nd houses for ability to concieve. The 5th (for me) would show the necessary 'interaction' for child-bearing to commence. And also possibly the 7th for obvious reasons.

But.... a big BUT! Your system only focusses on the passings & translations etc. And I would agree that it is a succint method, it keeps things simple and direct. (But of course I would have chosen the 8th house for the quesited)

Bee

 

[kwaw]

Now let's look at the girlfriend, who is signified by the Valet of Batons. There is another Valet (Cups) in the third, and the Two of Batons in the fifth. As these cards relate to the person represented by the 7th house, we have to examine these cards in relationship to the 7th. This is called Turning the Chart. So the 3rd house of the querent becomes the 9th house of the girlfriend, because it is the ninth house from the 7th house. So the 9th house of the querent is not his girlfriend's 9th house. Just start at the significator of the girlfriend, she being 1, and count the houses till you get to the Valet of Cups. There are nine, right? Similarly, the Two of Batons is in the girlfriend's 11th house.

The 9th house represents travel. This may be an indication she is hoping to take a trip. Our hero might suggest a trip in order to win her back.

As I look at it I see the Valet of Baton, significator of the girlfriend...

... walking away.

I relate the valet of batons with the sign sagittarius and its consignificator the 9th:

http://journals.aol.co.uk/kwaw93/Ta...d-astrological-attributions-of-the-courts/959

And read it too as his girlfriend being on a journey...

... perhaps a relocation connected with FE seperates them into different social / peer groups, and that fallen third cup in the 9th is their relationship, a natural parting of the ways, out of sight out of mind; each of them now drinking among different groups of friends.

She is on a journey, but one that does not include him.

The hermit in the 6th house of health, he's lamed, but time heals.

 

[Melanchollic]

I am aware of Lillys method(s). Everyone & his wife seem to be using it now, along with the Placidean house system, however this has been given as 'the standard/correct' house system for some years now. BUMP

I don't use placidean for the house cusps, nor do I use Lilly.

True. True. Lilly is certainly but one source of the tradition, and as more and more astrological texts are being translated from Greek, Arabic, and Latin, many for the first time, scholars are seeing where there was relative agreement, and where opinions varied, (Lilly used the Regiomontanus house system by the way, if anyone was wondering) and many feel he was much too late (1647) to be definitive.

Since Ben Dykes' fantastic two volume translation of Bonatti's Book of Astronomy (1277) came out, I rarely reach for Lilly. The link was readily available though.

Most of the 'tools' I've been using come directly from medieval Geomancy texts, mainly Modo judicandi questiones secundum Petrum de Abano Patavinum (14th cent.), and Cattan's Geomancy.


M

 

[Bernice]

Mel: Tried this method for a query, but got lots of trumps in the spread... although the quesited house has a pip. Not sure how you're handling them.

Bee

OMG! pic's too big. Is there a way to resize it here in the forum?

 

[Melanchollic]

Because of the the unique nature of the 22 trump cards, I treat them differently than the regular suit cards.

• The trumps do not pass.
  
• The trumps accept aspects.

So, unlike the pips/courts, a trump need not pass to make aspect with other cards. This makes them somewhat similar to planets in their own rulerships.

In your example, illness is a 6th house matter, so the quesited is a Two of Swords. Pips of course can pass, and we find Swords in the 7th, 12th, and 2nd. That's conjunctions on both sides of the querent, she/he looks besieged by them. The Eight of Swords in the 7th sits in opposition to the querent.

Sadly, the suggested symbolism doesn't look good. The illness is in the 7th, the house of partnerships, also in the 2nd, the house of possessions, and in the 12th the house of tribulations and imprisonments. The condition looks chronic.


M