Interpreting Minors in Marseilles Decks

Bernice

Cheers Mel.
I had wondered if the low-pip Swords in the 6th & 12th (health/hospitals) indicated a persistant, but fairly minor affliction. [Swords weak in low pips, strong in high pips]. But I had not taken the weighty Sword in the 7th into account even though it was a conjunction.

So, even though there are a number of Trumps - they don't come into it at all!
What a good idea to consider them by aspect. Thank you for clearing that up Mel. :)

I'm liking your method....

Bee
 

Melanchollic

Bernice said:
Cheers Mel.
I had wondered if the low-pip Swords in the 6th & 12th (health/hospitals) indicated a persistant, but fairly minor affliction. [Swords weak in low pips, strong in high pips]. But I had not taken the weighty Sword in the 7th into account even though it was a conjunction.



Hey Bernice,

I interpret the weak cards as being more malefic than the strong cards. So I'd see the lower pip Swords as being worst than the higher numbers. This makes the Ace of Swords the most horrible card, like in traditional cartomancy. I'm following (yet another) convention borrowed from astrology, where a planet with less dignity is more 'poorly behaved', whether a benefic or malefic planet. It is but one possible approach to interpretation of course.

I overlap the cards a bit when looking at their natural inclinations toward positivity or negativity (one of several considerations when coming to judgement). All you Pythagoreans out there will know why I link them at the 1's, 4's, 7's, and 10's.

GOOD

CUPS
King
Queen
Knight
Valet
..1
..2......COINS
..3.......King
..4......Queen
..5......Knight
..6.......Valet
..7..........1
..8..........2........BATONS
..9..........3..........King
.10.........4.........Queen
.............5.........Knight
.............6..........Valet
.............7............10
.............8.............9..........SWORDS
.............9.............8.............King
............10............7............Queen
...........................6............Knight
...........................5.............Valet
...........................4...............10
...........................3................9
...........................2................8
...........................1................7
............................................6
............................................5
............................................4
............................................3
............................................2
............................................1

..........................................BAD


Obviously, even a simple system of four (x 14) emblems like the tarot suits, contains a richer depth of symbolism than merely good/bad, but it is a useful convention, if used intelligently.


:CL M
 

Bernice

Hi again Mel,

I thought you were assessing the suits the same as the old cartomantic way.
I found this in an old post (apologies to the poster - I know your name but cannot recall it at the moment). Visual diagram for Pip strengths:


HIGH – STRONG
♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♥ ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ ♦
♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♥♥ ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ ♦♦
♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♥♥♥ ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ ♦♦♦
♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♥♥♥♥ ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ ♦♦♦♦
♣♣♣♣♣♣♥♥♥♥♥ ♠♠♠♠♠♠ ♦♦♦♦♦
♣♣♣♣♣♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♠♠♠♠♠ ♦♦♦♦♦♦
♣♣♣♣♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♠♠♠♠ ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦
♣♣♣♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♠♠♠ ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦
♣♣♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♠♠ ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦
♣♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♠ ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦
LOW– WEAK

The original post has the Hearts & Diamonds coloured red.

I see from your (fianally!) revealed diagram that the Swords from 7 to Ace are really, really BAD. Thank you for posting it Mel.

Having a coffee and a think..... "what else has he got up his sleeve?"

Bee :)
 

Melanchollic

Bernice said:
Hi again Mel,

I thought you were assessing the suits the same as the old cartomantic way.

Hi Bee..

I am.

I'm just viewing "strong" and "weak" in an astrological way, where strong means good, well behaved, well dignified, and weak means bad, poorly behaved, ill diginified. So looking at the diagram below (I believe Kwaw posted this originally), the 10 of Spades is stronger than the Ace of Spades, thus the 10 of Spades is better behaved (nicer) than the Ace of Spades. Likewise, the Ace of Diamonds is stronger than the 10 of Diamonds, thus the Ace of Diamonds is better behaved (nicer) than the 10 of Diamonds. It is confusing isn't it? :(


HIGH = STRONG = GOOD/WELL DIGNIFIED
♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♥ ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ ♦
♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♥♥ ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ ♦♦
♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♥♥♥ ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ ♦♦♦
♣♣♣♣♣♣♣♥♥♥♥ ♠♠♠♠♠♠♠ ♦♦♦♦
♣♣♣♣♣♣♥♥♥♥♥ ♠♠♠♠♠♠ ♦♦♦♦♦
♣♣♣♣♣♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♠♠♠♠♠ ♦♦♦♦♦♦
♣♣♣♣♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♠♠♠♠ ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦
♣♣♣♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♠♠♠ ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦
♣♣♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♠♠ ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦
♣♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥ ♠ ♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦♦
LOW = WEAK = BAD/ILL DIGNIFIED


I think you (Bee) are interpreting the bad suits (Swords/Batons) as if their strength gives them more power to be bad, and their weakness gives them less power to be bad. Is that right? That works too, but that's not how I was doing it. Too much astrology in my blood I guess. :eek:


:heart: M
 

Bernice

Ahhh! I was confusing this with =

1) Many batons/swords are stronger than one or a few of them.

2) Many cups and coins are weak/dissipated because their strength lies in "a lump sum" (one).

I now see the Astro. in what you're doing. Kudos! :)

I'm assuming that everyone else 'got it' except me..... why am I not surprised.

Signed: A-satisfied-and-enlightened-Bee :)
 

Melanchollic

Bernice said:
Ahhh! I was confusing this with =

1) Many batons/swords are stronger than one or a few of them.

2) Many cups and coins are weak/dissipated because their strength lies in "a lump sum" (one).

I now see the Astro. in what you're doing. Kudos! :)

I'm assuming that everyone else 'got it' except me..... why am I not surprised.

Signed: A-satisfied-and-enlightened-Bee :)


:) Yeah. It is really counter-intuitive, except for weirdos like me who sit around trying to figure out how the planet Mercury is affecting my plumbers love life... :D


M
 

Melanchollic

And Now for Something Completely Different

Bernice said:
Having a coffee and a think..... "what else has he got up his sleeve?"

Bee :)



suittheory.jpg



The above diagram is the product of a recent round of pondering about the nature of the four suits. Perhaps some of these inklings will be of interest to perusers of this thread, or at least of some amusement.

This model does NOT consider any correlations to the four classical elements, despite more than a passing resemblance to Aristotle's diagram of elemental rotation.

In this model,

Cups are emblematic of pleasures, sociability, and the forming of bonds and alliances, such as marriage, the Eucharist, etc.

Coins are emblematic of material comforts, wealth, and security.

Batons are emblematic of labor and productivity.

Swords are emblematic of strife, struggles, aggressions, and the right of rule.



Opposites

Cups are opposite of Swords - for pleasure is a state without strife, and strife is a state void of pleasure. Since both pleasure and struggle are often based on external situations or relationships, I see these as passive. They happen to us.

Coins are opposite of Batons - for comfort is a state free of labors, and labor is a state of discomfort. As we ourselves choose the nature of our labors (ideally), and our comforts (money, possessions, etc.) with which our labors are compensated by are produced by our choice, I view them as active. They happen by us.


Rotation

Through our labors, we make our reputation, social standing and our worldly means. From these come our sense of achievement, social acceptance, love, and so on.... Through our labors we gain our happiness. Further more, from the various happiness' (our sense of achievement, social acceptance, love, etc) we find our deepest comfort. This is true wealth.

Yet, if we are not diligent, and grow too comfortable and lazy, we increase our strife. From such troubles, yet again the need to labor arises, and the cycle repeats itself. Indeed, it is this very struggle, the very lack of life's pleasures that fuel our conviction to endure our labors. Those who desire little, achieve little. This passive strife born from lack and want of life's pleasures manifests itself in our ability to actively endure the hardships of our labors.

Just thinking out loud.. Any ideas?

M
 

poivre

"just thinking out loud"
GAWD keep it up! :D

I don't read with the Marseilles...
but have more knowledge now than all
the books I've read, from following you crazy cats and
all these threads! :D

I'm finding all the missing pieces of my puzzles.

Thanks,
ros
:)
 

rcb30872

I agree ros, but.....
Melanchollic said:
:) Yeah. It is really counter-intuitive, except for weirdos like me who sit around trying to figure out how the planet Mercury is affecting my plumbers love life... :D


M
....... hmm, you really have to start to wonder...... :laugh:

:love:

Bec
 

Melanchollic

rcb30872 said:
....... hmm, you really have to start to wonder...... :laugh:

:love:

Bec


What!? You're wondering about my plumber's love life too?!? :D



:love: M