Non-Native Americans, Are You A Twinkie?

Le Fanu

Ufff! What a fascinating commentary. That´s going to cause a few ripples...

Im not informed enough to know the ins & outs of Native American spirituality, but Im not at all drawn to those decks which reputedly use such symbolism for their imagery.

But then it´s quite natural for me not to be drawn to it, as it isn´t my background or heritage. I respect those who identify with it; and feel sure that they are more qualified to comment than I...

But it is a rather specious argument; the market is full of decks which have no tarot fundament (like Egyptian decks, and all those art decks bending a theme to a deck) but it doesn´t stop people enjoying them and reading well with them...
 

memries

Are all the Clans in agreement and banded together to stop any exploitation of images they would prefer not to see appear in a deck of cards ?

Yup.. I'm a Twinkie ! Is that labelling me or ? you have another alternative ?
 

poivre

Very interesting!
Thanks for the thread!

ros
:)
 

amethyst57

I'm pretty sure most Native Nations would agree with that article...
if you collect the cards for the art,they wouldn't be too offended...although some of the art strikes me as stereotypical...
could offend a Querent some time...
I don't like the idea of mixing their religions with each others'... or any New Age ideology mixed in....think each religion should be in its pure form...

BTW, I'm of european heritage....grew up with mostly Ojibwa and Lakota friends...and am a bloodsister of a dearly departed Ojibwa friend....
in jest, they'd affectionately called me "white-eyes" LOL
but twinkie sounds like their term 'apple' (red on the outside,white on the inside)...twinkie....like a berry flavored one,similar to being an apple
 

Sphinxmoth

I am not a Twinkie.

I *am* a cultural, religious and bio-regional orphan. I am a second-generation American, only fleetingly familiar with one grandparent- my grandfather who came as a young man to this country in steerage from Scandinavia, fleeing poverty and famine. A generation later, I was moved at a tender age one-third further of the way across the continent, separated again from that part of the country where this group of people is prominent, where their churches, traditions, food-ways, towns, farms and accents were common and had surrounded me. Away from my closest relatives and only living ancestor. I was raised as an essentially non-practicing, disinterested Lutheran, and un-churched myself at the age of fourteen. I am as close to being a pure-blooded, homogeneously ethnic, secularly suburban White Person as anyone I have ever known. My hair is curly and blond, my eyes are gray, and in the brief time I had to know my single grandfather, he talked to me with a thick accent (in the second language he had learned as an adult), of trolls and tomte and planting potatoes and cutting hay. He made wood carvings of all of those things, as well. I am three times removed from any meaningfully material rootedness in this world. That is what I am.

I own a copy of the Rock Art Tarot, the Santa Fe Tarot, and a set of Medicine Cards. My mom gifted me the Medicine Cards, a deck I was not really taken with, but she came across them in the used bookstore where she worked, and since she has passed, I will never give away or sell her gift. It was not a present made with any thought of cultural misappropriation in mind, she just knew I had started to collect different kinds of decks of cards.

I don't consider the Rock Art or the Santa Fe Tarots, either one, anything like cultural robbery. (Is purchasing a Navajo blanket or owning a Hopi Kachina or Zuni fetish (which I do- two of 'em) cultural robbery?) I chose them because I am most familiar with the land of the southwest United States, and these are decks saturated with the flavor of the places I have lived and landscapes and beings that I love- red slickrock, yellow columbines, juniper-pinon canyons, hummingbirds with flashing garnet gorgets, sheet lightning, coyotes, tarantula hawks, meadowlarks, sphinx moths, aspen and cottonwood trees...
I do not claim, nor ever sought, any special knowledge, sovereignty over, recreational "right" to, or one-ness with any of the sacred places of the southwest (of which there are many), or assumed that merely by living here almost all of my own life, that I am in any way privileged to know or use those sacred spaces- all of that belongs to other people. And *still* my point of view is unavoidably that of the Other, the majority culture, and any ideas I may have of cultural borrowing are going to be tainted and always subjected to suspicion. Such is life.

I also own the Australian Dreamtime Tarot and Oracle, both. I have never assumed deeper understanding behind the conceptions and commercial artistic execution of *any* of these decks (if indeed any exists), but they seem all to have been made by people with respect, tenacity and passion, and I took them at face value for those qualities, and that was what attracted me to them. I suppose, given enough familiarity, they are all equally useful as divination tools, and I would not hesitate to use any of them as such for any reason I can think of. Their systems of use are all very individual and different and require study, and I have not so far had the time to do that. Owning these things, and being willing to use them, I do not know what that makes me in the eyes of others. I will only object to being considered a Twinkie for it.

I have a copy of The Star That Never Walks Around. Again, I do not know Stella Bennett's tribal affiliations, nor did I research those, or her NA credentials before I bought her deck. It just seemed to me then (and still does), simply an authentic deck from an authentic person, with no pretentions, and hardly anything more. She did the drawings (she says) at her kitchen table. I liked that. That's all I know about it. I have always been very cognizant of the pot-hole dangers of Twinkie-dom, but I vehemently deny being PC. I am an *anarchist* ; a slacker, an avoider, sometimes smarmy, usually insincere, often mistaken (I have my flaws)- but I am NOT politically correct.

I don't like any of the other Native American decks I have ever looked at, and though I really know nothing first-hand about them, I basically object to their productions as mere genre-filling concepts, only because that's how they superficially appear to me, and so on account of that, it seems most respectful for me, from where I personally stand, to decline to use them, and leave them and their attendant controversies or usefulness to others.
At their best, they seem all susceptible to criticism and the motivations for their creation not beyond question.

Beyond that, I am not attracted to, or seeking to learn or study or otherwise familiarize myself with the spiritual ways and beliefs of indigenous persons. They are, they can be, in many ways, as narrow and dogmatic as the Western religion I rejected at fourteen. And more than that, their ways are not my ways. I really have no Ways. My ways have all been lost. Left behind in other countries, moved away from to other parts of this country, lost in time, lost in translation. My family was very small to begin with, and now there is only my brother and me, and hanging onto any small cultural traditions (such as they were to begin with) from our childhood seems to be a tenuous, increasingly unchancy thing.

I have no original religion that was learned or ingrained or was ever meaningful enough to me in any way that I would wish to return to (as people suggest is most appropriate for one to do), and Buddhism is very welcoming and open, so that is how I practice life, to the best of my ability. At least one may conscionably and unremarkably *practice* the tenets of Buddhism free of the accusation of cultural or religious misappropriation- Right Speech, Right Thought, Right Mindfulness. I hesitated a long time before I had the temerity to use the word Buddhist to describe myself. Not as many long years as it took me to begin to use the word Witch, but still a good long time. They are mostly words of convenience. My tools are chosen with care and (I hope) with thoughtfulness and are personal to me alone. My artistic (that is to say, philosophic) leanings are Pagan, certainly, celebrated unabashedly and rooted in the only profound thing I do feel- a stubborn bone-deep certainty that I define as and maintain is Racial Memory (though I do not know what that is, or what it means, exactly), an affinity for cold deep lakes and trackless spruce forests, for wood and stone and ice.

What I am *not* is a Twinkie.


Some days, it's a good day to die. And some days, it's a good day to have breakfast.
 

Scion

Bless Joan Cole for posting that long piece. I first ran across it years ago, but if anything I'm MORE in agreement with it now than I was then.

I find the massmarket appropriation of indigenous cultures depressing and insulting, but then most of modern pop culture is depressing and insulting so does it matter? It turns my stomach, but obviously it sells. Frankly, I find all "cultural" themed Tarots vaguely creepy and pathetic and the exceptions prove the rule. That's just my own bent, but it's not casual.

I've been in religion departments and at academic conferences when New Age charlatans have been called on the carpet for outright fabrication and it ain't pretty. Well-intentioned or not, it is destructive. When teachers perpetuate lies, it should be mentioned. As the Dalai Lama says "students should not hesitate to publicize any unethical behavior of which there is irrefutable evidence. This should be done irrespective of other beneficial aspects." Word.

And still... Any mass-produced product serves many functions. In general, I think the vast majority of people tend to swallow the pill without thinking about what's inside. This was a running theme of our erstwhile GD deck discussion that sputtered to a halt. I think people will fall sharply along the sides of this line, just as they would about the use of the word "fluffbunny" or "New Age." There is a tricky line in these cultural mishmosh creations, wthether in Tarot or entertainment or costuming. A bit like Disneyland: we know it's false, but there's something safe and comforting and entertaining about these streamlined, reptile-brain models of cultures or ideas. This really does walk the same turf asd the Silver Ravenwolf debate, for some of the same reasons, not with regard to indigenous culture, but in misrepresentation and I-can-claim-anything spirituality that sets some teeth on edge. Fast-food identity for the soundbite generation.

Fanu points out that you can still read with these decks. I'll totally agree there. I think what's important about Joan Cole's piece is that while you can read Tarot with them what you cannot do is learn about the referenced cultures from them. A huge drawback actually, when these cultural decks are often presented as a window into a community. These decks may be Tarot, but they are not representative of their subjects. Which would then beg the question: how are they improved/impaired by their false elements?

So too, as Sphinxmoth put it, I am NOT politically correct and there are noncultural elements that may draw people to these products that aren't part and parcel of the "cultural larceny." Is it "wrong" for someone to publish or purchase a product that is manifestly false and misleading? Couldn't say. I'll never stand in the way of people publishing anything. But I'm stroppy enough to be the first one out front ridiculing them for lying publically for their own gain, however gently. And these decks are lies of varying degrees.

Many thanks for linking to that article... an oldie-but goodie. :thumbsup:

Scion
 

le fey

sigh... tough issue here.

My father grew up being labeled 'half-breed'. I'm not sure finding a name - however cutsie - like 'twinkie' to describe a person one has issues with is that big an improvement.

My grandfather was Cherokee - not tribal affiliated, not on the rolls, due to decisions his own grandfather made. I know very little about him - he committed suicide when my father was four. What little I know is that he lived in a time where his own heritage was lost to him and the society he did live in regarded him as subhuman for the most part. He served honorably in WWII and came back after unable to find decent work. He married my grandmother (Irish), and they were disowned by her family for doing so - he had none as far as any of my relatives are aware.

The day he'd died, he'd overheard neighbor kids taunting my father with 'half-breed'.

Other than that, I've been told almost nothing other than a couple anecdotes he'd told my aunt who was old enough to remember them (my dad wasn't)... our last name was issued by the US Army to an ancestor and is only about 5 generations old. He had lived in Oklahoma before he joined the Navy.

That's it. There's no way to ever find out more about that part of my family history. I am visually a white woman and most certainly I grew up in a culture that would be regarded as Caucasion. I have few native ties to any place in the world as both my father and my husband did full careers in the Air Force.

I'm as far removed from my 3/4 Irish heritage as I am from my grandfather's Cherokee background (which was itself removed from all but the detrimental aspects)...

but I can explore my Irish heritage at will without being called names for it but if I want to honor my native ancestors in any way from my outsider's perspective, I'm a 'twinkie'?

No, culture and tradition and religion shouldn't just be pure, because there are many many of us who are not 'pure' as people...why is that a barrier?

I understand very well the desire to not have culture appropriated (and I have never sought out native themed decks), but I'd like to at least not feel that I must pretend that one quarter of my family never happened and never look there at all without feeling as if I'm harming someone. Even if I know nothing at all about it, it's MY history too. And I'm very very weary of namecalling.
 

mac22

I don't own any native American tarot decks or oracles. I've also been called much worse than Twinkie.

mac22
 

Mabuse

Did someone say "Egyptian?"

Le Fanu said:
But it is a rather specious argument; the market is full of decks which have no tarot fundament (like Egyptian decks, and all those art decks bending a theme to a deck) but it doesn´t stop people enjoying them and reading well with them...
So-called "Egyptian" decks are the oldest Tarot decks we know to be designed for divination. Although few people these days believe the Tarot originated in Egypt, the creation of Egyptian themed decks goes back to the beginning of occult Tarot so I would think they do have some kind of fundament.