Odins Rune Poem

Dancing Bear

Upon reading and trying to decipher.. I really doubt that the Younger futhark menaings going by the Icelandic runic prayer have any revelance at all.. they are quite morbid / negative and just dont seem to coincide with the Odin poem at all..

I do have a few ideas.. and going to sit tonight and try to use the key words to each rune and see if i can work it out myself.
Here goes, wish me luck!!..

Thanks Flaxen for your help :D
 

Milfoil

Thank you for posting this DB, it is of interest to me too but again, my time is very limited at present and although I feel drawn to start looking at this myself, I don't know how much I can dedicate to it right now.

Please do keep posting, it is fascinating.
 

Dancing Bear

I have a few ideas Milfoil myself.. Using the younger futhark.. and finding already written supossed meanings.. They dont all match up even if two runes were created later in the poem.
I am thinking of researching a little more before i settle with what i have already got.. I will be launching my findings up on my website.. Lets hope I do the poem and Runes justice.. I do like the younger futhark.. and upon reading the Book of Ballymote.. well the stuff that been interpreted on Furthark runes, which are referred to as Ogam... it is gets more confusing LOL..
I obviously share my findings in here too!! Hopefully someone may be able to add a few ideas ..
 

Milfoil

Some of the lines in the poem are rather Christianised unless that is merely the translator's understanding but it is interesting to separate out each verse then start looking at it separately.

I wish I better understood the original language so as to more accurately compare the meanings.
 

Dancing Bear

yes each rune he knows, seems to be in a verse that tells specific and seperate stories about each rune... i have had to look up a few words to understand what is meant..

The seventh is a bit hard to decipher, but i am sure i will get it..

"If i see in flames, the hall o'er my comrades heads; It burns not so wide, that i will not quench it, I know that song to sing.

I am thinking i might find someone else who has interpreted this poem..
This poem i have is one interpretation, I know a catherine someone., cant recall her name at the moment.. But she has also interpreted it.. hers might be slightly different and make more sense.. maybe?
 

Dancing Bear

Here is an interpretation by an Olive Bray

A seventh I know: if I see a hall
high o'er the bench-mates blazing,
flame it ne'er so fiercely I still can save it, --
I know how to sing that song.

Its slightly different, enough.. to start thinking more along the lines . What are bench-mates?

So maybe he is saying this rune says that not everything is so bad.. things can still be salvaged.. like the flame is not so high that he can still save and quench it..
something he is familiar with?

Dunno still working on it..

here is Olive Brays Page of interpretations..

http://www.pitt.edu/~dash/havamal.html

Here is how someone else interpets on eof the Havamals. its not the poem but it may give me some ideas about some of the contents and what is meant.

http://anomy.net/havamal/

I have been given two names to look up, both these men have dedicated themselves to interpret this poem.. and make it understandable to the modern man..

One is Lindow Someone... has a Norse forum or website.. ( I am yet to look him up)


and another is Oegann Odinsonn who has a facebook page dedicated to doing this..
( again i am yet to look this up, I have full inentions of having a goosy gander though)

http://eoghanodinsson.com/modern-havamal-project.html

Those last two might be able to give me more of an idea.. I "think" i only have about 4 to match up now. There are a few that couldnt be any thing else.. and yet others that could one of several LOL!!
 

Dancing Bear

Some of the lines in the poem are rather Christianised unless that is merely the translator's understanding but it is interesting to separate out each verse then start looking at it separately.

I wish I better understood the original language so as to more accurately compare the meanings.

I actually think it is the translators interpretations.. I have come accross otehr translations without the christian overtures..
I will definately keep you all posted with what i find. :)
 

Milfoil

Bench mates are those who sit alongside you at the long table (basically a massive plank from a big tree). So those warriors or important people who shared the King's hall and not the general hoi poloi.

In the latter poem above:

The torch is known to every living man by its pale, bright flame;
it always burns where princes sit within.

The torch is a deliberate fire, formed and lit by men, specifically for lighting rather than heat, it represents seeing in the dark, so only those with wealth (knowledge, education, wisdom, status, money etc) have such light or access to it.

From the earlier poem you quote:

"If i see in flames, the hall o'er my comrades heads;
It burns not so wide, that i will not quench it,
I know that song to sing.

and the Olive Bray translation:

A seventh I know: if I see a hall
high o'er the bench-mates blazing,
flame it ne'er so fiercely I still can save it, --
I know how to sing that song.

This seems to be talking about camaraderie, the flames of passion and anger, warriors contesting one another and finding their ranking in the company. A true man will not fear the wrath of his kinsmen nor back away from the fight but they must be able to prove their worth, the tales of honour and warriors deeds are sung in the hall at a banquet. A true warrior has earned his own song.

Therefore the verse is, to my understanding, talking about being amongst equals, having earned your place in the company of warriors and achievers (the torches or torch bearers of their clan).
 

Stormdancer

What a coinkidink! I just got The Nine Doors of Midgard, and last night I pulled out 3 sets of runes to figure out which set works best for the book. Anyway, this thread is a wealth of info. I look forward to waking up and understanding.

Thanks DB!!!
 

Milfoil

When Henry refers to wives of Kings, It is suggested he means, Wise Women " Healers, Those with insight, Wise ones" ..and even the runes were unknown to them. So it does suggest here that Wise women and men at thsi stage did not use the runes for divination.. Because it is an eddic Poem passed along for generations in song. We have no idea when thsi was created or by whom.. Eddic poems do date right back , How far thsi one goes is unknown.

From what I understand from the archeological evidence (Wetwang woman etc) there were high ranking women in Iron age society who served as possible psychic advisors/seers/diviners to the community so this would be in line with the wife of a King being also a seer or witch. In Northern Europe (Norway in particular) the Seidh (pronounced sythe) was conducted by the vitkis or völvas, women mostly but sometimes men, who sat on a high seat, surrounded by a group of other singers who would know the right songs (? harmony/rhythm?) to elevate the Volva into a trance state where she could answer questions in a divinatory sense. Odin bucked the trend with mostly women doing this and in Norse society, any man who did a typically female job was a source of ridicule so he really did force the pace yet despite this other male practitioners such as Ragnvald Rettilbeini and his retinue were killed it is thought out of beliefs regarding typical male and female roles.

How far back the Seidh was practiced or when the songs originated is anyone's guess.