The Lovers: love or choices?

[wind]

Interesting what you say about Waite - for me, Love is all about spiritual development, seeing, knowing yourself. Through the other you meet aspects of yourself.

In fact it has a huge esoteric meaning, but as you said, not in this silly romantic, 'are meant to be' way

 

[Blackstar]

I wanted to re-open a discussion about The Lovers in relationship readings. I know the card is not only about romantic relationships, but very often about choices.

When I google, I tend to find a more traditional meaning for The Lovers when interpreted in a relationship reading, especially when in the outcome position (love, sensuality, a good sex life, closeness, a bond).

But when I've searched past discussions here, many of you seemed to think that The Lovers is ALWAYS about a choice needed to be made, and never depicts a happy or sensual relationship. Which strikes me as odd...I think it has to at least be considered as one of the meanings of the card.

Although I'm not well versed in tarot and tend to lay out spreads only occasionally, I remember a relationship a couple years ago when The Lovers kept coming up again and again when I asked what it is that's distancing my partner from me, and I interpreted as an affair -- and I was right. Obviously any single card can have many different readings in different situations, positions, etc.

But because there is so much literature about The Lovers depicting a happy relationship with a good sex life and a strong bond, and because visually the card seems to point to this as well, it has to be the case at least some of the time, depending on other cards and its position, as well as the individual's situation.

What's been your experience with The Lovers?

I totally agree with you. Yes, it depends on the context. For example, if it is in position "why is my relationship over", it might suggest another person being involved, or someone has to make a decision to work it out. I'm talking about the card interpretation, alone.

Generally, the point is we interpret by intuition, right? In that case, what do you see when you see The Lovers? I have a RW deck and darn it, I see two people bonding, strong feelings of belonging to each other, yes decisions, but regarding each other because they are together now, not a freakin love triangle and cheaters. (I get so emotional about these kind of interpretations of the lovers, lol). I mean look at it, the colors, the symbols, two naked people under an angel, sounds heavenly to me. Of course, no matter how wonderful, every relationship has its issue now and then, it doesn't mean all is well until the end of time but anyway, I see it as a positive, happy card.

 

[Richard]

I was married to a Gemini guy and he was an A#1 womanizer. I'm sure not all Gemini's are, but he sure was. And he was very temperamental and changeable, too, just like two people in one body.......

I efffectively had FOUR (4) parents. My mother and father were both Gemini. They were loving and nurturing and non-abusive, but they failed to teach me about how the world works and how I might effectively fit into it. They were locked into a world of "keeping up appearances" and "clothes make the man (or woman)" and the importance of one's reputation. They meant well, but such concepts were not compatible with my Aries personality. It has taken me many years to begin to come to terms with myself in relation to the world. (I also am a parent, and, of course, did no better (and possibly worse) than they did with regard to parenting.)

 

[Miel]

Every arcana says something about love.

The Lovers is the immaturity of the desire. In the TDM, we see a man who doesn't know if he should choose between the reason (the older woman)or the sensuality/sexuality (the younger woman... the man's hand is just above the young woman's genitals). If someone is asking "Does X have feelings for me?", I would probably say yes with this card. If the person is asking "Is a relationship possible with X?", my guess would be not necessarily...

Most of the times when The Lovers shows up, there are choices, indecisveness, immaturity, some lack of concern. Depending on the type of question, this card may also be related to beauty, aestheticism, art, ect.

 

[katarzyna]

For me anyway, The Lovers is always about the Love for me, I personally do not have that meaning for it about choices. I have other cards taht can tell me that. The 2 of Swords for example is about thinking about two things or two people. Ofterh taht has to do with choiseing one of the other. Judgement also is about choices as, for me, it is about thinking over all that had past in a isutuation or between two people and deciding what to keep and what to let og of, what to keep doing in the same way and what to change.

So I am good, I don't need to have The Lovers back about choices for me. I have enough other cards that can gtell me that.

Babs

Yeah, I personally always saw Two of Swords or even Two of Coins to be about choices (among other things...balance, etc).

Again, I have seen The Lovers indicate an affair, in which case I suppose the card indicated both love and choices. Just depends on the reading!

 

[Debra]

? for Thirteen

History of the Card: originally it was called "The amorous one." Meaning, singular, "The Lover." A person who falls in love. And the picture was a guy with cupid and a woman. I.E. cupid deciding (choosing) who should love whom.

Which deck is that? The old Visconti - Sforza cards show a couple with a cupid, but they don't have titles.

 

[Richard]

Which deck is that? The old Visconti - Sforza cards show a couple with a cupid, but they don't have titles.

Most of the decks with French titles (at least as far back as the Noblet, the earliest known "Marseille" deck) are titled L'AMOUREAUX and depict a couple, Cupid, and an older person, probably a matchmaker (as is obvious in the 1JJ) or parent or counselor. The title is singular on account of the singular definite article le (abbreviated to l').

In my Della Rocca deck, Trump VI is titled GLI AMANTI. I don't know whether that is singular or plural.

I doubt that the card was ever intended to represent choice. (The Visconti card is an extremely important example of it obviously not being about choice. In the Soprafino I believe the older person is male, a king.) It would be out of character for the historical decks to indicate something as complicated as a sort of love triangle. The Trumps are about more general concepts, such as authority, religion, death, justice, and love (the card perhaps depicting a proposal or preparation for marriage, nothing so dramatic, personal, or specific as a confrontation with a two-timer).

 

[kglyphics]

The way I see the Lovers card is this:

You are standing in an open room (think gallery) and your friends are near by. The person you have your eye on is standing by themselves not too far away and they have strong feelings for you as well. You two lock into a gaze in which you both don't seem to care that there are other people in the room. However, your friends who are near by notice how into you two are to each other and one of them mentions to the other friend that one of the lovers' is planning on asking the other out. At this point, are you brave enough to join your lover across the room and openly show you are interested in them as well in front of your friends or do you stand by and chat with friends and act like they are not over there?

To me that is the lovers card.

 

[LaRazia]

...........

 

[Debra]

Most of the decks with French titles (at least as far back as the Noblet, the earliest known "Marseille" deck) are titled L'AMOUREAUX and depict a couple, Cupid, and an older person, probably a matchmaker (as is obvious in the 1JJ) or parent or counselor. The title is singular on account of the singular definite article le (abbreviated to l').

A man between two women, the unlovely one with the laurel crown representing Virtue, the flower-bedecked one a real hottie. That's where the "choice" concept comes from, I believe--chose between a good and virtuous wife, and hubba-hubba.

Anyway, personally, I haven't had any luck at all "choosing" love. It chooses me.