The Lovers: love or choices?

[Richard]

A man between two women, the unlovely one with the laurel crown representing Virtue, the flower-bedecked one a real hottie. That's where the "choice" concept comes from, I believe--chose between a good and virtuous wife, and hubba-hubba.

Anyway, personally, I haven't had any luck at all "choosing" love. It chooses me.

Cupid apparently promotes love in a random fashion. He is usually depicted as blindfolded: love is blind. The concept of choice in matters of love is an illusion.

 

[Debra]

As to the blindfold of Cupid, just refer to
the chapter "BLIND CUPID" of Erwin Panofsky's
"STUDIES IN ICONOLOGY".
(In short, blindfolded Cupid symbolizes profane
and sensual love while, when not blindfolded,
he represents sacred and spiritual love...)

Interestingly, in the "early" types of TdM --
including Noblet, Dodal, Payen, etc.-- which
Mr. Thierry Depaulis named "TYPE I" -- Cupids
in the trump VI are all blindfolded, but in the
"later" types -- Madenie, Conver, Chosson, etc.
-- namely the "TYPE II" decks according to Mr.
Depaulis -- they are not blindfolded.

from http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=3918

 

[Richard]

I believe that a "choice" card is unnecessary. All of the Trumps (except possibly X, XIII, and XX) indicate things which may be influenced by choice. Choice is similar to breathing, in that it is an essential factor of almost everything in life. Love tends to take center stage because, subjectively, it holds so much promise for happiness; and, objectively, Mother Nature has made it an important factor in the propagation of the species.

I'm sitting here at the computer pondering about whether to go to the refrigerator for a beer. Choices, choices,.....

 

[Sar]

I'm sitting here at the computer pondering about whether to go to the refrigerator for a beer. Choices, choices,.....

Me too, and I think I will call my lover as well.

 

[haleyw]

You're presenting this as "either/or" (either it's "LOVE!"--with hearts, flowers and wedding bells) or it's "choices" which you seem to be taking as meaning a choice of what to wear in the morning ("Do I wear the red sweater or the green? Boots or tennis shoes?") It's NOT (Let me repeat that several times: it is not, it is not, IT IS NOT) either/or. Love IS choices. Even "LOVE" with hearts, flowers and wedding bells. You have to make choices to find love, get love, have it and keep it. Or you do really imagine that the "positive" version of the Lovers card means that you don't have to make a single choice? Not even choose to say "yes" when he asks if you want to marry him?

History of the Card: originally it was called "The amorous one." Meaning, singular, "The Lover." A person who falls in love. And the picture was a guy with cupid and a woman. I.E. cupid deciding (choosing) who should love whom. Later on it was called "Love." Just that. Love. And it often pictured a man with two women--one woman the matchmaker (cupid again, only an Earthly version--choosing who should be with whom). Some of the images suggested a man picking between two women (making a choice). One pretty, one not, and the idea that "Love," true love, is not tricked by what is on the surface. It makes the right choice. And finally you get Waite with his weird Garden of Eden image and the angel. The idea being that Eve came from Adam, and the Angel represents that Gemini "twin-ship." Which is that the "soul" chooses that which it recognizes as belonging to it. It's missing part, it's other half. Hence, the "Love" card becomes the "Lovers" because the two must be together in order to complete each other.

Thus the card is the *soul's* choice. What choice does your SOUL make. You see that puppy in the window and why must you have THAT puppy? There's a whole litter there, but only one puppy is YOURS. Why did you decide that? How did you make that choice? Your SOUL made that choice.

And that is "love." The Soul's Choice. The card has always meant: knowing what is the "right" choice to make you feel whole, complete, fulfilled. But that doesn't mean it's going to be an easy choice. You ask, "Can't it be positive?" and Wind says, "Can't there be a card about Love?" that's positive? And I say, there is. The Lovers is it. It is about Love. And it can be very positive, as when you find that perfect puppy who will be your best friend forever. But positive DOES NOT MEAN SIMPLE. Which was Grizabella's astute observation. It doesn't mean you get to live happily ever after, the end, no problems, no issues, no complications. Your puppy will chew up your favorite shoes, will get sick and cause you grief, will need training, may growl at every man you bring home, and is going to be an issue when it comes to that new husband who will need to learn to get along with the dog as the dog needs to get along with him. And kids if you have them. Life isn't always negative. But it is complicated. Always. And LOVE--that choice which has you jumping into the deep end, maybe giving up all else and wading blind into an unexpected future, is the most complicated of all.

It may be the most wonderful, most positive thing that ever happened, complete with hearts, roses and wedding bells. But that doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Choices like this never are, and they wouldn't have any real meaning to them if they were. Yes? THAT is why the Lover's card is a card about choices. Not whether to wear boots or tennis shoes, but the hardest choices you make in life. The ones where your soul knows what it wants, but it's going to change everything if you go along with it. That's Love.

LOVE this!

 

[haleyw]

One more example - when I was asking about my job situation (I didn't have it at the time), I was getting Lovers card all the time. I couldn't understand it.
What happened was: I went to do some work for someone and this person during my work recognized that I should stay there with him on a permanent basis. He employed me, became my boss and we forged a beautiful connection. We clicked. BUT - at first, there were many struggles, a lot of conversation, talk, sharing, and A LOT of fighting. And yes, there was also the attraction, oh yes It was very difficult because he was my boss and also involved with someone else with whom he now has a family.

But we moved past the struggles, we both learnt a lot and now I have been working for him for years and we have a beautiful connection. Nothing sexual, but we share almost everything, as human beings. There is this CONNECTION and we support each other. We are partners, indeed. Probably, if we had met in different ciscumstances, we could have really been lovers as a couple.

And last time my boss said to me: I have grown spiritually because of you. I needed to go beyond my limitations to keep up with you. I became more mature.

It was the biggest compliment he could give me.
This is Lovers for me. And certainly Tarot predicted it - with the LOVERS card. It predicted the attraction - between man and a woman which was certainly there, the attraction of my boss for a potential employee (he felt I should work for him without seeing my references, without knowing anything about me), and the growth that this kind of connection brings. Talk, sharing, learning from each other.

But we are not 'soulmates', we do not have sex and we are not a couple. But Lovers we are

Lovers are two people sharing. The problem is that people connect Love with sex and marriage or commitment too easily, while it has nothing to do with that. Love is a cool, silent phenomenon of reflecting yourself in another.

Wind - you've just answered what The Lover's card has been trying to teach me for months. Thank you!

 

[Karmacharm]

You're presenting this as "either/or" (either it's "LOVE!"--with hearts, flowers and wedding bells) or it's "choices" which you seem to be taking as meaning a choice of what to wear in the morning ("Do I wear the red sweater or the green? Boots or tennis shoes?") It's NOT (Let me repeat that several times: it is not, it is not, IT IS NOT) either/or. Love IS choices. Even "LOVE" with hearts, flowers and wedding bells. You have to make choices to find love, get love, have it and keep it. Or you do really imagine that the "positive" version of the Lovers card means that you don't have to make a single choice? Not even choose to say "yes" when he asks if you want to marry him?

History of the Card: originally it was called "The amorous one." Meaning, singular, "The Lover." A person who falls in love. And the picture was a guy with cupid and a woman. I.E. cupid deciding (choosing) who should love whom. Later on it was called "Love." Just that. Love. And it often pictured a man with two women--one woman the matchmaker (cupid again, only an Earthly version--choosing who should be with whom). Some of the images suggested a man picking between two women (making a choice). One pretty, one not, and the idea that "Love," true love, is not tricked by what is on the surface. It makes the right choice. And finally you get Waite with his weird Garden of Eden image and the angel. The idea being that Eve came from Adam, and the Angel represents that Gemini "twin-ship." Which is that the "soul" chooses that which it recognizes as belonging to it. It's missing part, it's other half. Hence, the "Love" card becomes the "Lovers" because the two must be together in order to complete each other.

Thus the card is the *soul's* choice. What choice does your SOUL make. You see that puppy in the window and why must you have THAT puppy? There's a whole litter there, but only one puppy is YOURS. Why did you decide that? How did you make that choice? Your SOUL made that choice.

And that is "love." The Soul's Choice. The card has always meant: knowing what is the "right" choice to make you feel whole, complete, fulfilled. But that doesn't mean it's going to be an easy choice. You ask, "Can't it be positive?" and Wind says, "Can't there be a card about Love?" that's positive? And I say, there is. The Lovers is it. It is about Love. And it can be very positive, as when you find that perfect puppy who will be your best friend forever. But positive DOES NOT MEAN SIMPLE. Which was Grizabella's astute observation. It doesn't mean you get to live happily ever after, the end, no problems, no issues, no complications. Your puppy will chew up your favorite shoes, will get sick and cause you grief, will need training, may growl at every man you bring home, and is going to be an issue when it comes to that new husband who will need to learn to get along with the dog as the dog needs to get along with him. And kids if you have them. Life isn't always negative. But it is complicated. Always. And LOVE--that choice which has you jumping into the deep end, maybe giving up all else and wading blind into an unexpected future, is the most complicated of all.

It may be the most wonderful, most positive thing that ever happened, complete with hearts, roses and wedding bells. But that doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Choices like this never are, and they wouldn't have any real meaning to them if they were. Yes? THAT is why the Lover's card is a card about choices. Not whether to wear boots or tennis shoes, but the hardest choices you make in life. The ones where your soul knows what it wants, but it's going to change everything if you go along with it. That's Love.

I agree 100% with Thirteen's response. It fits well with my situation (I keep getting this card as an outcome). I'm in love with someone who is deployed in Bahrain, and even though things are rocky, and we aren't back together yet, I'm CHOOSING to be patient and giving him unconditional love. My SOUL has chosen this individual to give my all to... To die for if need be. However, he would never want me to die for him, because he loves me. Words aren't even needed, I can feel it.

Funny that Thirteen mentions that it won't be easy, because being a wife to a military man is so difficult. But if there's a genuine connection, the wait is worth it.

So yes, The Lovers is about choice, but it's a moral choice, and more than likely related to matters of the heart.

The card seems to say to me (as outcome), "are you ready? Are you ready for the trials in this relationship? Make sure you understand, but you will be ready."

 

[nisaba]

I wanted to re-open a discussion about The Lovers in relationship readings. I know the card is not only about romantic relationships, but very often about choices.

I remember a relationship a couple years ago when The Lovers kept coming up again and again when I asked what it is that's distancing my partner from me, and I interpreted as an affair -- and I was right. Obviously any single card can have many different readings in different situations, positions, etc.

It could have had a bit of both meanings.

Your partner may have been having a happy, sexual time with someone else. AND making a major choice about fidelity, or trying to get away with it.

But because there is so much literature about The Lovers depicting a happy relationship with a good sex life and a strong bond, and because visually the card seems to point to this as well, it has to be the case at least some of the time, depending on other cards and its position, as well as the individual's situation.

What's been your experience with The Lovers?

I own a lot of decks, and when a card comes up I tend to look at it in the context of that deck.

Cards which show one person between two others, often are about making a major life-changing choice between two options. Cards where there is a couple shown, are often about relationships. And at least one card in my collection, from the Cloisters deck, is about an unsafe temptation (a couple dancing, but a snake watching).

You also have to be sensible about these things. In the end, the intentions of the creators of individual decks don't matter all that much, nor does what the community thinks. What matters is your own relationship with a card. If you are uncomfortable with the received wisdom (here, or in other places) and the card works better for you on another level, then read it on that level.

 

[geronimo]

It may be the most wonderful, most positive thing that ever happened, complete with hearts, roses and wedding bells. But that doesn't mean it's going to be easy. Choices like this never are, and they wouldn't have any real meaning to them if they were. Yes? THAT is why the Lover's card is a card about choices. Not whether to wear boots or tennis shoes, but the hardest choices you make in life. The ones where your soul knows what it wants, but it's going to change everything if you go along with it. That's Love.

Applause.
Your second to last sentence answers a few questions I've had about the Lovers card. Admittedly, I still don't completely understand it, but your explanation sits very well with me. The daunting event of choosing what the soul wants. Makes sense to me as to why I've been drawn to the card lately. That also puts into perspective why I've associated this card with change, even though its point blank meaning has nothing to do with it. I probably thought of change with Lovers because choosing what my soul wants would be quite a change for me, and can be for a lot of people. It also entails the continuation... choosing time and time again what your soul really wants. That, for me, is ultimately love.

I always feel quite good when I see a card a bit more clearly. Thank you.