Thoth - List of Editions.

[gregory]

Per the eBay listing, this is a US Games edition, my guess the "Green Box" edition. The 3 extra cards are probably the Unicursal Hexagram, the OTO card, and maybe a generic US Games card listing other decks available? 84 Euros is an outrageous price for this edition.

A seller I have dealt with more than once, and whose decks are usually exactly what they say they are has a couple of other thoths up now, and I have e-mailed her to ask what extra cards are in there. But in my experience no USG edition has had three maguses, only Muller.... I will let you know what I find out.... (and then you will all RUSH.........)

 

[gregory]

Hello peeps - a Kwanzaa present for the first to score. An email from a dealer I trust and have bought good things from (and who very possibly has more copies, actually) She is very helpful and does speak English - though a bit dodgily as I recall.

hello,here are the tarot with the 3 magican. it`s that? click here:

http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6237893724&sspagename=ADME:B:AAQ:DE:1

best greets <name of seller deleted in line with policy, I think !>

Not that cheap - but hey, HTF, isn't it.....

Fight nicely guys..... BTW I think she doesn't take paypal - many european sellers don't. I send cash and pray to Ganesha a lot !

Oops PS - she SAYS in her listing that she only sends to Europe. Would be bidders - if she won't send elsewhere, I will forward it anywhere (at your expense - I have done this for others before and it was reasonable but not so cheap that I would be nice enough to pay for it !) if it's sent to me in the UK.... Don't worry - I won't steal it - I already HAVE one !!!

 

[Kissa]

Hi gregory!

i know this seller! but i find her price a bit high. the auction is for a US Games small Thoth with 3 Magus, i have one coming from amazon.uk (hopefully, i ordered judging by ISBN number, not the pic shown and an old message from Emily who said it was the 3 Magus deck), Tarot Garden has this one for $20 or so. What i want to see now is how different the US Games and the AGM cards are, if the AGM are really more vivid. I found out yesterday that i own a small copy and not a pocket copy, by AGM and the colors are fantastic, the designs however deserve big cards imo.

i am still after a BIG Thoth with 3 Magus, i am in no hurry, looks like i started to collect Thoth decks which i find really ironical after avoiding them so carefully for the last few years.

thanks anyway, gregory, for taking time to search and help ThinBuddha and myself! see, i too can do kisses

kissa

 

[thinbuddha]

What i want to see now is how different the US Games and the AGM cards are, if the AGM are really more vivid.

US Games cards (at least the newer editions available now) are printed by AG Muller and distributed by US Games. They are the same cards, I believe.

 

[thinbuddha]

Hello peeps - a Kwanzaa present for the first to score.

Hey- thanks for the find- and even more thanks for the offer to forward from Europe to the states.

That one is too rich for my currently poor blood. I'm still going to try to find one on the cheap (though it looks like the one we are both after!)

-tb

 

[gregory]

After what Kissa said I had a look on tarotgarden; I think their purple box one is it.... and at $20 why not go for that ???? I missed that they were regular size cards on e-bay - she has another up with large cards... but not 3 maguses. Check with Jeannette !

Kissa - I have an older Muller - are they supposed to be extra vivid ? I DON'T have a USG one.... (or, anywhere, a UHG card....) My Mullers have very dull backs - so does the new one I saw this week in a bookstore which is Weiser/Muller, in a green box (added confusion.) I did scan one of mine in here and the colours are pretty true to my cards...

 

[thinbuddha]

I remember my US Games editions (both the regular and large size) came wrapped in plastic with a AG Muller sticker on it. The cards themselves have US Games printed on the white border on the backs- so I guess they were printed by AGM for US Games? Either that, or US Games had to license the rights to print from AGM? Somehow, AGM had a hand in the USG Thoth cards that are out there right now.

That ebay listing is for 11x7 cm cards, right? I believe that this has to be the large, not the medium.

 

[Kissa]

from what i've understood (and sorry, i'm using european continental measuring units), there are 3 sizes of Thoth decks:
- a pocket-size (maybe originally made for accompanying Gerd Ziegler's books????)
- 7 x 11 cm is the so-called "small" Thoth, the one i have, slightly larger and shorter than standard decks (6.5 x 13)
- 9.5 x 14 cm is the "big" Thoth. The earlier versions of US Games large edition in the white box have a green coloration thus they got the nickname "icky green Thoth decks". That's why in the eighties ppl were after the AGM version that was more faithful to the real paintings and didn't have the greenish look. Please someone corrects me if i'm wrong. Now if both US Games and AGM are printed in Belgium by the same printer as we speak, they must look the same so i won't be paying for a rare old AGM if the new US Games version with 3 Magus in the purple box is what i want.

can't remember where i saw side by side comparisons of the Icky Green and the AGM, but i can warmheartedly recommend Jeannette's article on some of the different versions that are available on the US market. This excellent article can be read in the Library section of Tarot Garden and it is soooo helpful!!!

indeed, a purple box Thoth (small, 7 x 11 cm) is available from TG for $20 and it is in stock. i am almost 100% positive it IS the same deck sold by the German seller gregory linked us to.

short inventory:
- i have the small finnish AGM
- upcoming is the big US Games in green box (but this should be the newer versions of the Icky Green cards, so not so icky green! -> this one will be sacrified on the altart of Goddess Trim)
- and the small size with 3 Magus from amazon.uk. It is more expensive than TG but i could throw it before another order with them was dispatched. ordered "blindly" relying on ISBN number and not shown picture. Let's see where i gets me. (this adds to the excitement of a new Thoth!!!)

kissa

 

[Kissa]

thinbuddha, there is a 3 magus deck on eBay right now, $15 with Buy it now option -> http://cgi.ebay.com/ALEISTER-CROWLE...ryZ19271QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

kissa

 

[Dean]

U.k

For anyone still interested on the search of very early Thoth decks, i have listed my description of a 2 Part white and gold Box which maybe of some use to other people on this thread.

This is a link to the description that was posted recently on another thread.

http://www.tarotforum.net/showpost.php?p=688979&postcount=11

There is also an email i got from Llewellyn publications recently on the History of the First printed Thoth decks from 1969, this is the email message in full below.

Dear Sir,

Our records relating to the Crowley Thoth Tarot have long been discarded.

Here is what I can tell you from memory and a few odd notes:

We purchased 35 mm negatives of artwork from a Mr. McMurtry who had an agreement with Crowley to publish the Thoth Deck. We did some improvement work on these films.


We first published the deck in 1969 and printed it in Hong Kong in a deluxe slip box. Later we transferred the printing work to Morgan Press in New York and did some further improvement on the negatives. We have not printed the deck since 1977 when a new edition from new photography was published by U.S. Games. Later, after the assertion of copyright claims by the O.T.O., further printings were handled by Mueller (now part of Carta Mundi) in Europe.



Many people have written us over the years seeking copies of our original printing, but – of course – these are long gone.



That’s the best I can do for you.



Regards,



Carl Llewellyn Weschcke

President & Publisher

Llewellyn Worldwide, Ltd.

2143 Wooddale Drive

e-mail: carl&llewellyn.com

website: www.llewellyn.com




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------