Waite's Second Tarot Deck - Originals Discovered

Teheuti

Copyright is held by the creator of an original, creative work or those who directly inherit those rights for the term designated by law. The copyright can be licensed to others for specified uses. Usually the author of a new work that uses the copyrighted works of others pays for all licensing costs (unless other contractual arrangements with a publisher are made). Having written a book with a lot of licensing costs (Women of the Golden Dawn), I can tell you that, between those costs and the costs of research (trips to England and Ireland, plus huge inter-library loan fees), I made almost no money on the book, despite spending over five years, almost full-time, writing it. I even received the 'scholarly' rates for use of copyrighted material. It was totally insane and I can never afford to do it again!!! Please, buy my book!

Few independent publishers have the money to pay up-front for high quality color books and the very high cost of licensing rights plus the costs for professional photography of original works that have not yet been photographed by a museum. Most works of this kind are subsidized by wealthy funds, university or government grants or are produced in collaboration with the museums that own the works. Owning a work does not give one copyright to it, and so separate agreements have to be reached with everyone involved.

The negotiations around the various Thoth deck publications, for instance, are legion and incredibly complex involving major publishers.

It seems just as reasonable to me for money to be raised to publish a book like this, as it does for someone to raise money to make a film or to create a tarot deck that they will later publish. It's up to the fund-raiser to determine what gift-incentives they want to include, and for the contributor to determine how important an incentive is, versus how much they are willing to donate. Would you contribute $100 if you would receive a free book but only $50 if you would not? That choice is totally up to you. If the gift book is not included, you might decide you don't want to contribute at all. That's your choice. To complain about it is silly, even if you think the choices offered were not what you wanted. Why not contribute $50 to the campaign and pay $23 for the book later - you've just saved $27 (assuming that a book was included for $100 - which it is not in the current instance).

And, yes, the people pictured on the GD website are, from left to right:
William Butler Yeats, S. L. MacGregor Mathers, William Wynn Westcott, Israel Regardie, and Moina Bergson Mathers. Read all about them in my book (mentioned above)!
 

nicky

Mary thank you for the post - I read Women of the Golden Dawn btw and it is fabulous - (particularly enjoyed the astrological insights) -

I think fund raising is reasonable for projects - my issue is with the transparacy - I have heard so many different facts I can't imagine pulling out my wallet. Is this from ebay, the British Museum, is this for a deck is this for a book ... etc.
 

gregory

Yes - I just bought the Women book and it looks great - I am very much looking forward to reading it.
 

Teheuti

I think fund raising is reasonable for projects - my issue is with the transparacy - I have heard so many different facts I can't imagine pulling out my wallet. Is this from ebay, the British Museum, is this for a deck is this for a book ... etc.
The website is pretty clear that the donation is for a book, not a deck. As to the source of the images: are you doubting the quality or the legitimacy of the work? Protecting a source is not unheard of. You aren't being very transparent about what information is required to guarantee your contribution. Tarot Professionals are making it perfectly clear that they are using part of the money to secure all legal rights for this publication and part to obtain high quality photography. However, you are within your rights to not donate for any reason.

On a slightly different topic: all those who object to Indie-GoGo & PayPal fees should simply not donate money through this program to any project—not just this one!
 

Laura Borealis

I don't have a problem with soliciting donations to publish a book. I understand the reasons behind it. I just find this case to be full of confusing and seemingly contradicting information, and if I were in the position to donate (which I am not) I would want things to be a lot more clear -- particularly in light of the FRC's apparent claim (I say apparent, because we only know of it via Tabetha Cicero's blog).
 

Debra

I want to see the pictures and know more about them!

Tarot has such a checkered history! I think it's wise to be careful with your money--I mean let's face it--Tarotland has always been a happy home for scammers and boondogglers! This makes tarot lovers a cautious lot, I think (or maybe not :laugh: )

I have the impression that the lack of clarity in this case is a matter of timing. They want to keep things confidential until the agreements are all satisfactory, and also to raise a lot of money and publish a book in the next few months.

From the fundraising website
In return for your contribution, which will also ensure these images are made available to future researchers...
I wonder what they have in mind in terms of making the images available.
 

nicky

The website is pretty clear that the donation is for a book, not a deck. As to the source of the images: are you doubting the quality or the legitimacy of the work? Protecting a source is not unheard of. You aren't being very transparent about what information is required to guarantee your contribution. Tarot Professionals are making it perfectly clear that they are using part of the money to secure all legal rights for this publication and part to obtain high quality photography. However, you are within your rights to not donate for any reason.

I guess it wouldn't matter where the images come from to me really in the long run - that was just curiosity and not a need to know anyway- so cross off the transparency concern. I feel like the project has been mislabeled. If this was heralded as the Rosicrucian meditation plates by J.B. Trinick I think I would bite :)
 

Minotauro

I have the impression that the lack of clarity in this case is a matter of timing. They want to keep things confidential until the agreements are all satisfactory, and also to raise a lot of money and publish a book in the next few months.
I actually think it is a strategy both to create controversy and make peopel chit chat arround the book and keep it all behind a veil of mistery so our spectations rise , so we want to know by ourselves and so we buy it , you have to admit the book becomes more interesting with all of it.

think of how little appel reveals about their upcoming products and how they neither dismiss or clarifies the rumors around them . they let the expectation grow in us all.

and if it wasnt planned it is still working X) haha
 

Teheuti

If this was heralded as the Rosicrucian meditation plates by J.B. Trinick I think I would bite :)
I don't know if that description would be any more accurate as they weren't illustrating the story of Christian Rosenkrantz. They were images used in the rituals of a mystical Christian fellowship based on Rosicrucian inspired death and rebirth initiations and meant to represent stages of development and patterns of ascent and descent as depicted in the Christian occult Kabbalah (to use Waite's spelling). 22 of them were like a higher vibration, esoteric Major Arcana, experienced as the paths on the Tree of Life and a further 10 represented the sephiroth. Not all of them are by J. B. Trinick, and they were definitely done according to Waite's conceptualizations.

If you consider the Golden Dawn Tarot to be tarot and not just 'meditation plates' then it's hard not to also consider this to be tarot, unless your definition only allows for 78 cards and specific images (and then what do we call all those other 22 card decks like the Wirth Tarot?).