When In Spirit...

ravenest

You might have taken that flippantly. I was actually deadly serious: what you believe (not what you wish for, but what you actually deep-down believe) is what is true for you in the afterlife. If you wish for gold and virgins but believe in your own contemptible self and hellfire, you'll get hellfire. If you believe honestly that you will go to a Viking Greathall with endless oxen and boars roasting over a fire and plenty of mead to wash it down, that's what you'll get.


So, there are all these different heavens floating around up there ? Sounds like the religious segregation in a cemetery .

Do they ever hassle each other ... like the Vikings go to the edge of their heaven and yell out over to the Quaker heaven ; " Hey! You bunch of old fashioned , out-of date, pussies ! We are gonna come over there and steal you women!"

[ I mean. how could a Viking be in heaven without plundering, what sort of Viking heaven would that be ... and plundering needs a plunderee . ]
 

Padma

[ I mean. how could a Viking be in heaven without plundering, what sort of Viking heaven would that be ... and plundering needs a plunderee . ]

I was musing the same thing - for instance, a cat's heaven would be full of mice to catch, and birds to chase - so does that mean what is heaven for the cat, is hell for mice and birds?

Or, for those here who want to eat in heaven, then if they like steak, does it become hell for the cow? :confused:
 

Flames

Perhaps, these are manifested through the believer's imagination...so, those 72 virgins aren't "real" as in spirits of women whose afterlife is to be one of Dick's virgins for him after death. Perhaps, it's simply a projection of the believer...kind of like being in a dream. It looks real. It feels real...and for all intents and purposes, it tastes real...but, it's virtual...which doesn't make it any less "real" for the one experiencing it...it's "real" for him, exclusively...Nisaba's post resonated with me. It brought to mind, "Inner Christianity - A Guide to the Esoteric Tradition", by Richard Smoley. There's a section where he explains that very thing - how you get exactly what you believe (deep down in the bones), not necessarily what you wish for...because what you wish for and what you actually believe are not the same.

And, on the topic of food...we humans need physical food. Spirits would have no need (which isn't to say that some wouldn't have a desire for it, that's different). And, is that not why we inhabit a body...because it's our vehicle while we're here, and as our vehicle or vessel, we're limited by earth's laws and rules? I only imagine that I would miss aspects of my physical life because my consciousness is mediated by my body. I have no idea what consciousness free floating feels like until I'm divested of this "mortal coil."

I need a glass of wine. :D
 

DownUnderNZer

Remembered something that happened to me when young.

I was very sick and stopped breathing. If I had been an Asthmatic or had poor lungs I would have died no doubt.

So, a near death experience.

Strange thing is I was very aware of the fact I wasn't breathing and had no control over what was happening to me whatsoever and in that moment I was pulled towards this door that was ajar with the most brilliant light beaming from beneath it. 4 men in white robes stood to one side and 6 men in black to the other...or vice a versa. Mentally I fought to keep away from them and the door. I was frantically thinking in my mind that someone needed to come now and find me (in bed) or I wasn't returning. My sister came...

In a way it was dream like, but with a total awareness.
 

celticnoodle

Yes, I would agree with both Nisaba and Flames posts as well.

I need a glass of wine. :D
:laugh:

Wow, DownUnderNZer, what an experience you had!
 

ravenest

I was musing the same thing - for instance, a cat's heaven would be full of mice to catch, and birds to chase - so does that mean what is heaven for the cat, is hell for mice and birds?

Or, for those here who want to eat in heaven, then if they like steak, does it become hell for the cow? :confused:

Thus 'theology' is born :)
 

ravenest

Perhaps, these are manifested through the believer's imagination...so, those 72 virgins aren't "real" as in spirits of women whose afterlife is to be one of Dick's virgins for him after death. Perhaps, it's simply a projection of the believer...kind of like being in a dream. It looks real. It feels real...and for all intents and purposes, it tastes real...but, it's virtual...which doesn't make it any less "real" for the one experiencing it...it's "real" for him, exclusively...Nisaba's post resonated with me. It brought to mind, "Inner Christianity - A Guide to the Esoteric Tradition", by Richard Smoley. There's a section where he explains that very thing - how you get exactly what you believe (deep down in the bones), not necessarily what you wish for...because what you wish for and what you actually believe are not the same.

< starts believing in 'Amazon heaven' > ;)

But seriously, such 'mental throwups' are illusions that have been imprinted on the screen of the mind ... especially so, if that screen ( point of view) changes little.

Many practices teach about this (and the 2nd death or 'astral death' that follows) . Especially in practices that teach a bit more of a complex idea about the death process, like some branches of Buddhism. That is why they say to ignore all the 'clamour' ; beautiful or horrific and ...

'move towards the light ' - any image but pure light is considered part of ' the illusion' .

This could be relevant :

" There is little danger that any student, however idle or stupid, will fail to get some result; but there is great danger that he will be led astray, obsessed and overwhelmed by his results, even though it be by those which it is necessary that he should attain. Too often, moreover, he mistaketh the first resting-place for the goal, and taketh off his armour as if he were a victor ere the fight is well begun." - Liber O.
 

EmpressArwen

Remembered something that happened to me when young.

I was very sick and stopped breathing. If I had been an Asthmatic or had poor lungs I would have died no doubt.

So, a near death experience.

Strange thing is I was very aware of the fact I wasn't breathing and had no control over what was happening to me whatsoever and in that moment I was pulled towards this door that was ajar with the most brilliant light beaming from beneath it. 4 men in white robes stood to one side and 6 men in black to the other...or vice a versa. Mentally I fought to keep away from them and the door. I was frantically thinking in my mind that someone needed to come now and find me (in bed) or I wasn't returning. My sister came...

In a way it was dream like, but with a total awareness.

That is amazing.Thank you for sharing that.
 

EmpressArwen

I am clearly not smart enough for this thread. Ya'll are talking these deep theological ideas and I'm like, "man, I'm going to miss **knowing someone in the biblical sense**.

I felt my previous term was too vulgar for a spirituality thread. haha!