When the Hanged Man is REALLY Hanged!

[WolfSpirit]

hanged man upside down

I just received a deck from a trade.
In the whole deck there was only one card upside down...the hanged man. And for a moment I thought huh...what card is that ? before I turned it around.
We all get confused by the hanged man sometimes I guess.

 

[Trogon]

Re: I have decided...

By the way, the Native American Tarot, another deck I mentioned at the start of this thread, does not depict a dead man as I had initially thought. I read the LWB and learnt more about it--whatta concept!

Tauni;

So... what does said Native American Tarot's LWB have to say about this card? Hmmm??? Do tell!

 

[CompassRose]

The Hallowquest Arthurian uses the Wounded King as the Hanged Man card, works for me even though he isn't inverted. Here's some pics http://www.wicce.com/arthurianpix.html.

Oh, interesting... that card's really very like many Four of Swords cards, and the Four of S. usually reads to me like a minor partner to the Hanged Man.

I hate me a dead Hanged Man (or Person, as the case may be). Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Although, I suppose, maybe if there was some way to convey, say, Inanna, who died when she went to the Netherworld and was hung on a meathook... but revived... in the graphic area of one very small card, that could work. But the Hanged One must return, or the point's lost.

 

[sagitarian]

THe hanged man when he's really hanged

In old languages, they used to associate people who were spiritually aware with people who plain and simply spoke to the dead, or had direct influences from the dead (guides, guiding angels, etc). I believe a picture of the hanged man is going back to this basic form of speaking to the dead for enlightenment. Your spiritual communications to the universe (the afterlife/afterdeath) is in effect communicating to the "dead" communicating to the "hanged" man for enlightenment.

That is definitely an interesting one though!

 

[Logiatrix]

Re: Re: I have decided...

"So... what does said Native American Tarot's LWB have to say about this card? Hmmm??? Do tell!"

Trogon,
The Hanged Man card in the Native American Tarot is called "The Sun Dance," if I am remembering correctly. The card depicts a particular ritual conducted within the larger religious ceremony of the Sun Dance (celebrated by several Native American tribes). The dancers were young male warriors who symbolically sacrificed their bodies in honor of the transformative nature of life and death. They did this by skewering the skin of their chests with pieces of bone tied to ropes, then hanging by the ropes from the sun-pole in the center of the ritual site. The warriors would hang until the skewers ripped the skin from their chests.
I don't have the LWB with me (I'm at work), but I think it said that this ritual symbolized sacrifice and surrender to the tribes who practiced it, as does the Hanged Man in the tarot.

 

[Trogon]

Re: Re: Re: I have decided...

They did this by skewering the skin of their chests with pieces of bone tied to ropes, then hanging by the ropes from the sun-pole in the center of the ritual site. The warriors would hang until the skewers ripped the skin from their chests.

Ouch!!! this definitely sounds a bit more drastic than hanging ones self upside down by the foot.

I don't have the LWB with me (I'm at work), but I think it said that this ritual symbolized sacrifice and surrender to the tribes who practiced it, as does the Hanged Man in the tarot.

Yes... I can definitely see this meaning in what you described. I may have to take a closer look at this deck...

 

[WolfSpirit]

The Quester tarot has a similar card for the hanged man. I don't think it is with pieces of bone though but with some kind of hooks, and they have to lean back in order to really feel the pain and make the sacrifice bigger.
I don't have the deck but I have seen the card on line *somewhere* (not a sight you easy forget)

 

[raeanne]

Hi all,

The native American ritual of the Sun Dance was indeed very much the "Hanged Man" concept. It was a physical ordeal that was supposed to bring the warrior to a higher spiritual level. There are as many different versions of this ceremony as there are tribes of native Americans. Some stuck bear claws into the chest underneath the breast muscle of the warriors and then lifted them off the ground to hang for hours in agony. Others would stick a bone through the chest muscle. Some would have the warrior attached to a post and the warrior had to pull themself free by ripping their skin. It was a bit gruesome. The physically or spiritually weak usually did not survive.

As for the Handed Man actually being hanged, I think this also has to do with walking a spiritual path that not everyone can walk. It's something like crossing the River Styx. If you can walk among the dead and then return, you certainly won't be on the same spiritual plane as everyone else!

 

[Logiatrix]

Good one!

"As for the Handed Man actually being hanged, I think this also has to do with walking a spiritual path that not everyone can walk. It's something like crossing the River Styx. If you can walk among the dead and then return, you certainly won't be on the same spiritual plane as everyone else!"

What an excellent insight, raeanne! This is a very good visual parallel by which I am able to better understand this card.
Thank you!

 

[galadrial]

I've been thinking about the Hanged Man in Legend the Arthurian, and I agree that I don't care for the author's own particular description of the card, but I think the accompanying story has useful interpretive elements. The Hanged Knights went up against a formidable foe for the sake of a greater cause; their chivalric code to use their power to try to eliminate evil from the land. The fact that evil prevailed, and hung their corpses up for warnings to other knights, does not detract from the personal spiritual turning point they reached when they voluntarily decided to go against Ironside. It is reflecting on their bravery that strengthens Gareth to go forward against the Red Knight, for as long as he remains unvanquished the cause of chivalry is challanged. So I see the dead Knights as possibly representing that Hanged Man point where individuals must decide whether they are willing to go forward at personal risk for the sake of a greater cause.