Why do people see The World negatively?

[ravenest]

l have already posted here my thoughts on the World card (2nd post) and that l do not see it as negative.
Would like to show the meaning here from The Victorian Fairy Tarot.

"Something significant has been completed in your life. Take time to understand the lessons you have learned along the way and recognize how far you have travelled. Contemplate and release the past, and embrace the future with a heart full of joy. The meanings here are completion, wholeness, seeing the pattern of life, connection with the world."

That is quiet well put and worded. For me; here is the best part;

Contemplate and release the past, and embrace the future with a heart full of joy.

We cant change the past, we can only decide to accept it, or reject it, or accept someone's past or reject them. We can however deal with the results of the past. No one knows what the future holds .... it can drag on unchanging or everything can change in a flash and take totally new directions. All we have is the present. And the more in the present, the more in the moment we are, the better we are able to deal with life, the more intense it gets, the more in the moment we must become .... with intense pain for example, its a second by second existence .... if I can just get through tonight, thats another day ... take it one day at a time, etc.

Life and the 'world' has its ups and downs, it is how we deal with them that makes things better or worse for us, we cant blame that on the World card. Of course, it has two sides, like all the cards; if something has two sides one can decide it is either/or or neither (that is, being a whole of two parts it cannot be one or the other, in itself, without an influence to bring out a side, it is something else, its central principle. Its central principle does not seem learning toward the bad IMO, that is bought about in a reading by placement, influence, reversal, etc or in the consciousness of the person.

Of course life has sorrow and suffering in it. I experience that too ... I am not Buddha , as a boy living behind the garden walls and shielded from suffering, nor am I Baron Harkonnen. Real grief never disappears - one learns to live with it however, and carry on .... somehow. But that is all part of life. Its harder for some and some have much harder conditions and experiences .... I am talking about a LOT more than a relationship breakup here. Thats where compassion comes in.

Sure, I can shake my fist at the sky and curse 'God' , I can have pain and sorrow I wish I didnt have but that is all effecting me on another level ... like bad physical pain, one learns to 'put it somewhere else'. I helped to look after a 98 year old guy once ; he had been to 3 wars , had one friend left, 2 family members , everyone else in his life had died, he could hardly walk anymore but he did everyday and everyday he told me it was a great day and good to be alive.

Although your journey has been fraught bless you and you cannot see any joy for the future l feel the World card holds out the hope when we can only see despair. Its about starting out over again and finding that connection with life again.

Yes

Contemplate and release the past, and embrace the future with a heart full of joy.

(Look at ME quoting fairy tarot )

This is what many of the refugees I worked with did. At times they were still in despair, shock or damage control from what had happened to them (one woman showed me her torture marks where pieces of her body were missing ) - that is when compassion and sensitivity is needed ... but later " Its about starting out over again and finding that connection with life again" and I think the world card is a wonderful image for that.

IF one understands the symbolism and message.

 

[JoyousGirl]

How do we view our life experiences? Negatively or positively?

I think we come to the world to learn - we have a journey here and travel from one experience to another. The world is an educational institution for our souls, and when we can integrate the physical with the spiritual purpose we have come a long way on our journey to reintegration (which the woman in the centre appears to be - naked as she was in the beginning)

The 4 beings in the corners of the card are the 4 beasts of the Revelation in the Bible. Each one of those beasts represents a destructive influence that rise as beasts within self.

Jesus overcame the world. So when we get the lesson, understand what we've just completed in whatever cycle we were going through, we overcome the world bit by bit. So it is a positive thing in that sense. If we see the World - we should look at the opportunity that we've been given. Sure, sometimes our experience may come dressed in an unpleasant garb - but take off that garb and look at what's underneath.

ETA I should also mention that the 4 beasts represent the 4 lowest chakras (calf = base, Man = Sacral, Lion = solar plexus and Eagle = heart) and they are also, in Egyptian mythology, the 4 children of Horus. These chakras are all related to the physical world (the heart being a bridge between the lower material and higher spiritual).

 

[nisaba]

(Look at ME quoting fairy tarot )

Dire, I know.

This is what many of the refugees I worked with did. At times they were still in despair, shock or damage control from what had happened to them (one woman showed me her torture marks where pieces of her body were missing ) - that is when compassion and sensitivity is needed ... but later " Its about starting out over again and finding that connection with life again" and I think the world card is a wonderful image for that.

T___ A____ would have us think she came here to make more money. In this day and age, no one's ever a real refugee any more. <glaring>

An in less extreme cases, also. Yesterday I did a paid reading for a friend-of-a-friend who hasn't reached The World stage yet. She left her husband of nineteen years for a Great Love, and got dumped a few months later. She's still in her Nine Swords phase. Pretty soon she'll need to lick her wounds instead of picking off the scabs, and she'll move into her Four Swords mode. After that, she'll be looking to move forward, looking for the next thing.

It is that moment, when you are no longer struggling for immediate healing but you are ready to take that one first step into the future, where all your loose ends are tied off, that The World marks the finish of that stage of your life. And while you may have lost something you valued deeply, the healing that the World offers is well worth it.

 

[ravenest]

Nice post.

How do we view our life experiences? Negatively or positively?

I think we come to the world to learn - we have a journey here and travel from one experience to another. The world is an educational institution for our souls, and when we can integrate the physical with the spiritual purpose we have come a long way on our journey to reintegration (which the woman in the centre appears to be - naked as she was in the beginning)

The 4 beings in the corners of the card are the 4 beasts of the Revelation in the Bible. Each one of those beasts represents a destructive influence that rise as beasts within self.

At first I disagreed with that but then .... it IS a view that can be seen as quiet valid, some Gnostic Hermetic view are that we 'descend down through the spheres or the orbits (can equate with the 7 planets) until we get to the solid Earth sphere, or the World (and here we have to be aware of the concept of the Anima Mundi, her modern equivalent might be seen as gaia and some might see Gaia as the woman in the centre of the elements). from the world we ascend back 'up' through the spheres, each one is a type of trial and when we pass or accomplish work in that sphere, we gain their benefits and good qualities. They are only destructive if approached and used the wrong way.

http://www.golden-dawn.com/goldendawn/UserFiles/EN/image/article/after.gif

ETA I should also mention that the 4 beasts represent the 4 lowest chakras (calf = base, Man = Sacral, Lion = solar plexus and Eagle = heart) and they are also, in Egyptian mythology, the 4 children of Horus. These chakras are all related to the physical world (the heart being a bridge between the lower material and higher spiritual).

They also represent the 4 elements and the underlying 'Law of Four' in the Universe, the Four Worlds of Kabbalah , the four parts of the psyche ( Individuation and Will, Feelings Understanding, thoughts and mentation and the physical body), the four tarot suits, the 4 powers of the Sphinx ; to know, to will to dare and to keep silent ....

Oooops , I shouldn't have said that

 

[re-pete-a]

Quote...Book...Metanoia x Russell Sturgess.

Quote..."The best way to get to the individual meaning of the cards for oneself is to approach them directly as one would the paintings in an art gallery. Like paintings, these Trumps are so -called projection holders, meaning simply that they are hooks to catch the imagination.

Speaking psychologically, projection is an unconscious automonous process whereby we first see in the persons , objects and happenings in our environment those tendencies and characteristics, potentials and shortcomings that really belong to us.

We people the exterior world with the witches and princesses, devils and hero's of the dramas buried in our own depths...


Jung and Tarot"..end Quote.



Hermetically speaking ...
the Mecuric speculum ...the un spotted mirror ...

Simply put ... The world is a reflection of the viewers mind...ego.

For every finger that points out, there are three fingers pointing back at the pointer.



The WORLD card is a junction point...be it happy or sad or unmoved...and is dependent on the outlook at that particular time of the viewer.

These cards are Projection holders as the beginning of the post suggests...If the WORLD is populated with the need to treat misery, or joy, or unmoved, in any particular way, suggests the mind of the viewer is in a particular place.

Careful where that finger points...

 

[ravenest]

My view is that the esoteric meaning of any card (in whatever particular tradition) is the 'unspotted mirror'.

The spots appear from our feelings, interpretations or intuitions about the card or image at a particular time or in context of a reading. That is why I hold up my feelings and intuitions against the template of the cards intrinsic meaning - it keeps me on track.

The thing with Jung is people interpret him as if he saw virtually everything as a projection of the unconscious - i.e. subjective reality. That goes against hermetic principles where we have the ' Soul' of Anima Mundi as well ... a projection of the World's unconscious, which creates an objective 'psychic reality' 'out there' in the world. people have thought that for over 40,000 years (in one form or another) ... this ' its all an unconscious projection' stuff is fairly recent and IMO it is another example of Mans ego ... as if all 'psychic' and unusual or unexplained events are due to man and his awareness or unconscious. How do we explain 'projections of our unconscious' witnessed en mass or with reliable witnesses ? Group hallucination?

Jung is good ... but try adding some Patrick Harpur to the mix ... and a bit of Dr Wilson vanDusen ( he had success treating 'incurable psychosis' by treating patients 'hallucinations' as if they DID have an objective reality ... basically out of desperation as noting else was working ... and from this, reference Swedenborg for the older classical approach that VanDusen found affinity with) for some modern clinical / scientific demonstrations of these principles.

Yes I agree with you that one's viewpoint is an indication of ones need... and I dont need to see the World as a negative or bad experience or I will become negative ... eventually about ALL expereince. The key is responding to the worlds ups and downs the right way ... not to hold one view throughout every experience ... take off the rose coloured glasses AND end depression as well I say.

 

[re-pete-a]

Yes I agree with you that one's viewpoint is an indication of ones need... and I dont need to see the World as a negative or bad experience or I will become negative ... eventually about ALL expereince. The key is responding to the worlds ups and downs the right way ... not to hold one view throughout every experience ... take off the rose coloured glasses AND end depression as well I say.

Be careful where that finger points....

The World is perfect as it is..

The rest is a projection....Words ,science and philosophies have changed ...but human nature is exactly the same as it ever was...Intellectuality has not, nor will not change anything...it's base is exactly the same as it ever was also. It has a common root origin...

Anyone on the path of learning must by necessity be DIFFERENT mentally in order to progress...The NORMALcy of the world lacks drive or incentive to change anything. Some have even labeled it stagnant. Dare to be different and one becomes pigeon holed as a mental problem that none can agree on when the labelers are separated ... Their fingers point the same as anyones...reflecting , projecting...

There is suffering, there is joy, there is rapture and there is evil...All floating on the perimeter of that card for a reason...BUT.. Nothing is lost . All will return to the beginning ...eventually. passing through the Yoni, Rue , birthing, to another viewpoint.

 

[RViewer]

Different but the Same

I realize there is a necessity to protect oneself behind an external persona in the world as it exists currently.

As we all learn to deal with life we each form our own particular modes of expression and receptivity. The four suits of the tarot I believe reflect these tendencies (among so many other things). A sword type for instance might interpret a feeling cup type to be floaty and clueless while the cup type might believe the sword type to lack any depth of emotional awareness as to actually make any good use of the data they hoard. This is where the power of compassion and the willingness to orient toward seeing behind the external and speaking to the real is so important to growth and healing. All of us really are on the same team although some of us are not aware of it.

For me I am uncomfortable with people where I am unable to detect the presence of a capacity for emotional connection. This is especially with individuals where I observe a high amount of esoteric knowledge acquisition paired with a corresponding absence of any sign of increased compassionate awareness or a caring helpful disposition. I do tend to issue a challenge (a strong vibe) in all such instances within my life as it is my nature to attempt to increase the feeling connection within people and help them connect to that aspect of themselves as the capacity of my intuition provides. I am always greatful to those who provide the same challenge to me. It is my view that the value of intellectual perspective is taught by establishments at every turn but the importance, value, and the skills needed to increase the emotional power and awareness that forms an individual is devalued and suppressed from long centuries of social conditioning.

I can have pain and sorrow I wish I didn't have but that is all effecting me on another level ... like bad physical pain, one learns to 'put it somewhere else'.

I agree with and feel the relevance of the entire post the above sentence is pulled from. It is also my view that the 'somewhere else' that the pain is put should not be so distant as to be misplaced. To the degree we cannot access it is the degree to which we can lose sight of what is actually important to us. In a way it is a key ingredient to true strength and sanity.

My post above as well as this one does not pertain solely to you. I approve of the content and the spirit of your posts within the last day Ravenest although I am aware you may find this distasteful. I am also glad to hear you are not a Harkonnen I see that you have much to offer and hope you choose to find a way around the "will to dare and to keep silent" as your wisdom allows. Many of the areas you are versed in are in real need of compassionate translation for the rest of the team.

 

[Barleywine]

Pardon me while I cherry-pick your comments . . .

The World is perfect as it is.

Do you mean it the way Dr. Pangloss meant when he told Candide "Everything is for the best in this best of all possible worlds."? (No, I didn't think so, or at least not exactly.)

The rest is a projection....Words ,science and philosophies have changed ...but human nature is exactly the same as it ever was...Intellectuality has not, nor will not change anything...it's base is exactly the same as it ever was also. It has a common root origin...

Then I had the impression that you're alluding to the Vedic concept of "maya," the world as an "illusion of a limited, purely physical and mental reality in which our everyday consciousness has become entangled, a veiling of the true Self." But that doesn't quite seem to be your point either.

Anyone on the path of learning must by necessity be DIFFERENT mentally in order to progress...The NORMALcy of the world lacks drive or incentive to change anything.

I would take it a step further and say that if you aren't at least a little bit mentally different at the end of almost every day of your education, you aren't learning all you could be. I do agree that the world will "flatline" you if you let it.

There is suffering, there is joy, there is rapture and there is evil...All floating on the perimeter of that card for a reason...BUT.. Nothing is lost . All will return to the beginning ...eventually. passing through the Yoni, Rue , birthing, to another viewpoint.

Yes, I see that this is where it was heading. A closed system amounting to a metaphysical version of the "law of conservation of energy and mass." The perfection of a world shorn of the layered "projections" of human evolution leaves no room for the intellectual artifices thus contrived. The best way out is down the rabbit hole . . . a metaphor for rebirth into an alternate (and hopefully less encumbering) reality - and not by fighting your way through the encircling hedge.

Thanks for the thought-provoking commentary!

 

[ravenest]

I agree with and feel the relevance of the entire post the above sentence is pulled from. It is also my view that the 'somewhere else' that the pain is put should not be so distant as to be misplaced. To the degree we cannot access it is the degree to which we can lose sight of what is actually important to us. In a way it is a key ingredient to true strength and sanity.

Daily physical pain cant be 'misplaced' . I suppose I cant expect anyone to understand who hasnt been through it. And it is VERY rare for me to take pain-killers ... most just pop a pill for a little headache or toothache. If a friend sees me take pain-killers they say :Oh, It must be bad today if you are doing that?" As far as I know I am the only one who still brings flowers to 'dear lost friend' of 7 years ago ... most 'forgot' about doing that after a couple of months. She is on large display, her photo is on a little altar in my cabin , mutual friends are surprised, "You still have that photo up and are putting flowers there?" 'YES! and I still howlingly miss her." <confused looks>

My post above as well as this one does not pertain solely to you.

That means it DOES pertain to me ... as well as others. I think you should read your post #51 again ... and see what you projected on to me and others before you start sermoning about what I say ..... HMMMMMM ?

Many of the areas you are versed in are in real need of compassionate translation for the rest of the team.

Speak for yourself .... if you have a team go and play with them (there is some secret team here that PMs each other and talks about whether ravenest is 'in need of compassionate translation' and you as the Captain inform me ??? - I had NO IDEA I drew such attention. ) If I think someone here is TOO soppy or harsh I dont read them. I also get good feedback and thanks from others here ... if you dont like it, put me on ignore .... thats the most compassionate advise I can give you.

[34 to 4 I see in the poll ... looks like the positive 'team' is 'winning'. ]

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