Wildwood Tarot

[Cerulean]

I see the thoughtfulness of the Matthews in the book

as decks of theirs that I like have the Wheel of the year backdrop and influences from the Hallowquest scenic world seems echoed..but this deck is...not so different in the way past decks might be. Maybe expectations are too high...not the grandeur of the Grail Tarot, not the folkish joy of the Celtic Wisdom, nor the introspective world as the Arthurian...while stunning images I remember from Will Worthington of the Druidcraft would seem so ideal...I see at first sights, glimpses of animal oracle decks here.

I think this deck seems to dress all the humans up, offer balances of women, men and animal figures. Aside from a chalk outline on the five of bows, theres not too much to cause .nervousness for reading in public. There is some drama and mystery, but not the atmosphere of the Druidcraft. Even the ' fearsome' sorts remind me of distant and woolly characters. Actually this moderateness works for me.

Tarot of the Sidhe has the vitality and joy I associated with a fresh ideals that the old Greenwood expressed long ago. I like the decks, but I need a more neutral choice to do readings on a daily basis.

I believe Mark Ryan had something unique in mind and I look forward to finding out more. I have lately used the Contemplative, Shadowscapes and older versions of of playing card style decks. I feel like this is my first new deck this Spring and am glad.

No, this is not what I expected but I enjoy having this, to explore. The book and deck are light and yet
the one hundred sixty page book is quite complete. Page 36 to 139 list meanings...

For now I admire the book and illustrations as a reward for an otherwise stinker of a day.

 

[Faolainn Storm]

Gryff, the animal headed people are actually called Manitoba in a series of books by Charles DeLint. See Moonheart. In this series they are actually very Shamanically oriented, and I've always thought very cool. This series of books about a mythical town in Canada is perhaps one of my most favorite sets of books. So he is sort of using the region of Manitoba as a spirit name for his creatures.

Actually no, the term De Lint uses is Manitou, the Algonquian term for spirit beings. Manitoba is related to this term, but it is not the term he uses. See here.

FS

 

[Mi-Shell]

Thanks a lot for the animal list, Carla.

Let me add the ones from the Greenwood, so that everyone else can compare, too (if they're interested ).
[Card title -- Wildwood animal -- Greenwood animal]

Arrows--
King--kingfisher -- Lynx
Queen--Swan -- Deer
Knight--Hawk -- Hawk
Page--Wren -- Woodpecker

Bows/Wands--
King--Adder -- Adder
Queen-Hare -- Hare
Knight--Fox -- Fox
Page--Stoat -- Stoat

Stones--
King--Wolf -- Horse
Queen--Bear -- Bear
Knight--Horse -- Wolf
Page--Lynx -- Wren

Vessels/Cups--
King--Heron -- Reindeer
Queen--Salmon -- Heron
Knight--Eel -- Salmon
Page--Otter -- Kingfisher

Why on Earth did they delete both Deer and Reindeer? Surely Deer were more central too pre-Celtic life than Eel?

Also, the other changes (switching Kingfisher from Page of Cups to King of Arrows, or Lynx from King of Arrows to Page of Stones, or changing the places of Horse and Wolf) make it nearly impossible for people familiar with the Greenwood animals to adapt to the Wildwood system. I wonder of there is any explanation for these more drastic changes in the companion book?


From the ones I've seen so far, I strongly dislike:
- The Forest Lovers (these two dopey-eyed ones convey neither passion nor wholehearted decision to me)
- Nine of Bows (just plain creepy!)
- Seven of Arrows (what's with the drama queen pose?!)
- Five of Vessels (this is a particularly bad-LoS one, way too tiptoed for me)
- Seven of Stones (okay, this may just be the letdown from the Greenwood - it's one of my favorite cards there and one of my least favorite here)
- Nine of Vessels (silly guru cliché pose)
- Two of Vessels (why does this have to be so obviously gendered?)
- The Mirror (another bad-LoS one, way to sexualized)

There are some more that I don't hate as pictures in and of themselves, but only when I compare them to the Greenwood, most especially the Seer/High Priestess (not sure what she's called in the Wildwood).

It might be a minor detail for some, but I really dislike all the tip-toed and/or artfully (sexily) posed women. Especially compared to the women of the Druidcraft deck. To me, this is where the Wildwood gets most Lo Scarabeo-comic artist-like. Oh, and in the Death (renamed the Journey in the Wildwood) card - it's all a bit too dramatic for my taste. I prefer the slow, earthy feel of the Greenwood or the Druidcraft.

And just because I found this on the BookDepository page for the deck again and it still makes me angry (emphasis mine):

No, no, NO! This is FALSE ADVERTISING. The Wildwood is NOT "The Deck Formerly Known As The Greenwood". It's merely a new deck that is based on the same system (as far as I know). There have been major changes to the cards, and we're not just talking different art styles here.

I'm not saying people shouldn't like this deck. But reading these Greenwood references really makes me want to spit. To me, this feels like an attempt to betray the buyers, and have them believe they get a reprint or at least a close redrawing of the Greenwood. And THAT makes me wonder about the integrity of the people who claim to be able to teach us something about spirituality and a respectful attitude towards the Earth and her inhabitants (among which humans surely also count)...

The Deer and the reindeer, the antlered female was/ is Chesca Potter's Animal Spirit Guide and actually THE muse that inspired her to create the Greenwood deck in the first place.
Chesca sees this Creature as the mythical Ellen of the Ways. Not to include Deer or Reindeer is a direct hit towards Chesca...

This is just NOT the re-print of the REAL THING and never will be.

 

[magpie9]

The Deer and the reindeer, the antlered female was/ is Chesca Potter's Animal Spirit Guide and actually THE muse that inspired her to create the Greenwood deck in the first place.
Chesca sees this Creature as the mythical Ellen of the Ways. Not to include Deer or Reindeer is a direct hit towards Chesca...

That's really cold, petty and spiteful. Wow. I knew I didn't like or respect Ryan before this but now my opinion of him has gotten even worse.

 

[Satori]

Actually no, the term De Lint uses is Manitou, the Algonquian term for spirit beings. Manitoba is related to this term, but it is not the term he uses. See here.

FS

Oops. Thanks for the correction. I was close...been a while since I read the books.

 

[Satori]

Actually no, the term De Lint uses is Manitou, the Algonquian term for spirit beings. Manitoba is related to this term, but it is not the term he uses. See here.

FS

Oops. Thanks for the correction. I was close...been a while since I read the books.

 

[Cerulean]

Both Mark Ryan and John Matthews write of Ms Potter appreciatively

but definitely the fans of the original deck will not find comfort that the art is different.

The appreciation by Mark Ryan says...

'Finally, my sincere and grateful acknowledgement mu trulyst go to Chesca Potter for her truly magical relationship with the Greenwood denizens that produced the visionary artwork for the original pack. Her contribution to this evolving work was vital and inspired. Wherever and whatever your situation, Chesca, I wish you safe, happy, and fulfillef by your faith.
Mark Ryan, Los Angeles, 2010

page 10.



While John Matthews preface notes he had been consulted by creators of the original pack in the Greenwood at various times, although'the vision was wholly theirs.'

He joins 'Mark in acknowledging the contribution of Chesca Potter to the original Greenwood Tarot from which The Wildwood Tarot has grown. Chesca, we hope you like this new envisioning of the Great Wood.'

John Matthews, Oxford,2010.

page 11.

From what I read, I get a respectful tone but clearly this is a different deck from a different set of authors and artist. John Matthews is co-author of the new version.

I re-examined the Thorsens edition of the Greenwood book with thanks to Caitlin and John Matthews among others noted in the front and looked at the deck again. I had bought the Greenwood deck years after my initial Arthurian Hallowquest. The Greenwood art was different and I enjoyed the charm of the colors and style as a change from my other decks.

I don't know if the quotes crediting Chesca Potter adds a friendly perspective. It sounds like many fans of the Greenwood do not care for the Wildwood, so it is definitely is not good choice for them. Does anyone who have both decks find something positive about the new one?

John Matthews also credits both Mark Ryan and Will Worthington with the new deck.

 

[Carla]

And his artwork is not at all like the Druid Craft or the Plant or Animal Oracle or the Greenman Tree Oracle. It must be a different medium. There is no lushness. The colouring feels thinner (I'm guessing this must be watercolour whereas the other decks are acrylic on canvas??) Also his style is sketchier. You could argue that his art has evolved and become more economical, or you could argue that it has become sketchier.

But the literalness strikes me above all. Some of the cards I like a lot. I like the Queen of Bows (Hare). This feels like the old Worthington, as does the World Tree. I like a lot of its images enough to actually want to have a play and read with it and read the book, but it does feel like pretend shamanism. Cleaned up druidry for the suburbs. These characters wouldn't last 15 minutes in the pre-Celtic "Mythic" forest.

I can clearly see Worthington's style in every card, although as you say it does look different from his other decks. I'm no artist, so can't identify actual techniques, but I notice lots of fine lines; it does look like it might be pen and ink with watercolour, but I have no idea. Also, I assume he was commissioned to do this work and answers to the desires of the deck's creators, Ryan and Matthews, so it could be some of the things that people are not liking came from them and not him. Just a guess.

I don't think it's fair to say this deck is 'pretend shamanism'. Surely all shamanic tarot decks are pretend shamanism. Did ancient shamans use mass market decks of paper cards? And isn't all of contemporary paganism 'cleaned up druidry for the suburbs'? I speak as someone who practices a form of paganism myself, I'm just being honest. I don't think any contemporary pagan would 'last 15 minutes in the pre-Celtic forest'. Paganism certainly romanticises the natural world, so it's no surprise to see that expressed in the art and writing of pagans--all pagan decks do that.

I think the deck is okay. The art appeals to me--I don't like every image, but I've never bought a deck where I liked every image. I, too, as someone said earlier, get the feel of an animal oracle going on, particularly with the court cards, and that annoys me a bit. But I am keeping this deck as I intend to collect every Will Worthington deck he ever does. I'm a fan.

 

[Le Fanu]

Does anyone who have both decks find something positive about the new one?

Well, it's cheaper.

I have to say though, after reading through the introduction of the book last night and finding the respectful acknowledgement towards Chescas by both Ryan and Worthington, I thought this was also worth quoting;

"It is time to make the system more available to a wider audience", so perhaps we shouldn't expect the style to be similar in any way. They certainly don't make any claims on that score.

Also;

"By adding to the mix the powerful and breathtaking artwork of Will Worthington, and using the Greenwood ethos as a basis for redefining and evolving the concepts, we have created the Wildwood Tarot."

This seems a slightly less heavy-handed claim and worth quoting, I felt.

It is a basis in the way the RWS & Thoth concepts/system can be a basis for a deck. Who knows, the Greenwood may be the first reworking of a system just as the Hermetic was of the Thoth (I don't know if it was the first, but anyway...), or the Royal Fez Moroccan "reworked" the ethos of the RWS. Most RWS-based decks make claims on the box that it is a reworking of the RWS system. In 50 years, there may be many Greenwood clones. It's a system to be reworked. Perhaps.

 

[Wendywu]

Oh I think the Wildwood has a definite place of its own in the Greenwood "family" if there should be one, and I am much happier with that idea than with it as Greenwood Lite or Greenwood Renewed etc. But there is no sense of Journeying in it for me. The Greenwood brings that feeling of inner excitement and anticipation - that translation of me into somewhere else, where what I hear and see makes total sense. Like Ironwing, in a way.

But that description of it by Carla as the offspring of the Robin Wood deck and the Druidcraft is all too apt for me!

For a gut-wrenching insight into how-it-was (teeth, claws, dirt and all) - meditate with Tarot of the Origins .....