Joermit
Hi, there!
Very interesting thread so far but I do feel compelled to chime in and offer some thoughts that might stimulate some further discussion...
Oh, the number of professional singers who actually sing very incorrectly, at a technical level is astonishing...lol many, many have damaged their voice and have had to have surgery... many times when you hear of an artist having to cancel part of their tour due to 'illness' or 'fatigue' or even 'laryngitis' it's often because they've severely damaged their voice and physically can't sing... and converslely, it's also amazing how many wonderfully trained singers with perfect technique just don't sound all that great...
there is no accounting for taste either... many people think that Barbara Steisand has a beautiful voice... well, I don't really care for her (though she has wonderful technique!)
there are some that just have a gift... a natural instrument and technique... and if they do know technique and are trained... which training is better?? for singers, is being trained in speech level singing better than the bel canto style of training?? and like I said before, many great singers have little training....
and training to be a ballerina is grueling work... you should see a girl's feet when first going onto pointe... the bruises, calluses, blisters, and blood... it's awful... but you did mention an important part.... the audition... a ballerina can still go through those blisters and blood and such and still not get parts... no matter their training... and wonderfully trained singers can go to audition after audition and still not record an album...
auditioning in very, very subjective... like a reading... it's all subjective... I don't see how we can ever subject a reader to any sort of standardization.... nor would I want to....
This sucks, it certainly does... but... are the readers at fault? or the store owners? the owner of any metaphysical space should have a responsibility to their readers and the public to hire a 'professsional reader'... there should be an 'audition' of the reader or even several, but again, this is very subjective... but does a store owner have to?? do they always?? no... it's their business, their money, their networking contacts, their word of mouth... they run it as they see fit... this is where, for me, personally, I would not read with them as there is a cross purpose and difference of professional opinion...
But how does one judge competency in readings? no good reader in my opinion, can or should ever claim to be 100% accurate... how can there be a training package the covers a reader's personal experience of living the 8 of cups and having an extremely personal meaning behind that card? why would we want a standardized teaching process for something so very personal to many? will it include golden dawn teachings and attributions? what if that doesn't resonate with a person?? and who says the stakeholders and professional bodies and "industry" and actual practitioners are qualified to assess?? they themselves? who assessed them? who trained them... it's the chicken and the egg...lol
and do we create training packets and stardards for those who read with/via:
playing cards
oracle cards
crystals
coffee grounds or tea leaves
those who scry
palmists
astrologers
clairvoyants, clairaudients, mediums
bones
dice
only the majors
marseille style
etc
etc
for me... a reader's only judge should be their client... and if the client got something out of the reading that's all that should matter... a good reader will succeed as a professional if they are just that... good... a store owner will succeed as a business ownder if they hire or contract good readers...
again... I just have to think of those whom are naturally gifted and able to read.... they have the instrument...
just some thoughts....
Joey
Very interesting thread so far but I do feel compelled to chime in and offer some thoughts that might stimulate some further discussion...
HearthCricket said:Like anything else in life, if you are going to be good at it, it takes time, practice and patience. Even a singer with a beautiful voice has to train that voice so their vocal chords are not hurt in performance. Even the most poised ballerina has to work up to pointe and must audition for a spot.
Oh, the number of professional singers who actually sing very incorrectly, at a technical level is astonishing...lol many, many have damaged their voice and have had to have surgery... many times when you hear of an artist having to cancel part of their tour due to 'illness' or 'fatigue' or even 'laryngitis' it's often because they've severely damaged their voice and physically can't sing... and converslely, it's also amazing how many wonderfully trained singers with perfect technique just don't sound all that great...
there is no accounting for taste either... many people think that Barbara Steisand has a beautiful voice... well, I don't really care for her (though she has wonderful technique!)
there are some that just have a gift... a natural instrument and technique... and if they do know technique and are trained... which training is better?? for singers, is being trained in speech level singing better than the bel canto style of training?? and like I said before, many great singers have little training....
and training to be a ballerina is grueling work... you should see a girl's feet when first going onto pointe... the bruises, calluses, blisters, and blood... it's awful... but you did mention an important part.... the audition... a ballerina can still go through those blisters and blood and such and still not get parts... no matter their training... and wonderfully trained singers can go to audition after audition and still not record an album...
auditioning in very, very subjective... like a reading... it's all subjective... I don't see how we can ever subject a reader to any sort of standardization.... nor would I want to....
Nisaba said:I was a bit shocked
a) When I first rocked up to a new age shop that I ended up having a decade-long association with, and they let me start doing readings there without even asking me to do one for them, and
b)when I went in on my day off to find a reader I'd never seen before sitting in "my" corner. I went to introduce myself between clients: she had a mint-condition Rider-Waite deck on the table, and was reading, apparently for the first time, the LWB. And if anybody had asked for a reading, they would have been charged full price. <sigh>
HearthCricket said:I know exactly what you are saying and I am rather fed up with someone who recently did this. She never owned or looked at a tarot deck until two months ago. She finally decided to buy one and because she is friends with a local store owner, she was hired to do tarot readings. So, why does this make me angry?
1. She still knows nothing about tarot and makes up her own meanings, entirely. I am still a firm believer in following a traditional system to some extent and then tapping into your intuition for a reading. But this takes time and a lot of practice. It doesn't happen overnight.
2. This makes other tarot readers look bad, because customers are already complaining about her readings and that she "runs out of things to say" or blanks out during a reading. Hopefully this will urge the owner to take her off future schedules, at least until she has some background and knowledge on tarot. They did just have a fair and though she was available for readings, no one went to her.
3. She is taking up time that better readers were depending on having to take their cliental and now they can only read once or twice in a period of 2-3 months because too many people are vying for the 1 night the store is open.
This sucks, it certainly does... but... are the readers at fault? or the store owners? the owner of any metaphysical space should have a responsibility to their readers and the public to hire a 'professsional reader'... there should be an 'audition' of the reader or even several, but again, this is very subjective... but does a store owner have to?? do they always?? no... it's their business, their money, their networking contacts, their word of mouth... they run it as they see fit... this is where, for me, personally, I would not read with them as there is a cross purpose and difference of professional opinion...
Nisaba said:This is PRECISELY why I'm studying within the Vocational Education and Training system: I fully intend to work as a trainer and assessor, develop the professional contacts - then lobby for some kind of training and assessment to be mandatory before people can read for money. This does NOT mean they have to memorise rote-meanings, and it does NOT mean that people like me who have been reading forever in a way that maybe isn't outlined in a recognised published book will suddenly find themselves barred: there will, as in the other occupations, be an RPL and RCC pathway to assessment (recognition of Prior Learning/Recognition of Current Competencies) All the stakeholders will have a say in organising the training package (what materials should be taught and assessed, what abilities need to be demonstrated to what level), and stakeholders will include professional bodies, "industry" and actual practitioners.
But how does one judge competency in readings? no good reader in my opinion, can or should ever claim to be 100% accurate... how can there be a training package the covers a reader's personal experience of living the 8 of cups and having an extremely personal meaning behind that card? why would we want a standardized teaching process for something so very personal to many? will it include golden dawn teachings and attributions? what if that doesn't resonate with a person?? and who says the stakeholders and professional bodies and "industry" and actual practitioners are qualified to assess?? they themselves? who assessed them? who trained them... it's the chicken and the egg...lol
and do we create training packets and stardards for those who read with/via:
playing cards
oracle cards
crystals
coffee grounds or tea leaves
those who scry
palmists
astrologers
clairvoyants, clairaudients, mediums
bones
dice
only the majors
marseille style
etc
etc
for me... a reader's only judge should be their client... and if the client got something out of the reading that's all that should matter... a good reader will succeed as a professional if they are just that... good... a store owner will succeed as a business ownder if they hire or contract good readers...
again... I just have to think of those whom are naturally gifted and able to read.... they have the instrument...
just some thoughts....
Joey