Brown Dots On Ancient Tarots Of Bologna

[Debra]

But it's not decorative. It's quite ugly. It doesn't complement the artwork. It's not embellishment. This is not just my subjective opinion--it doesn't accord with the style of the images themselves or anything from the period. It's not found in books, so far as I know, or on paintings, wall murals, or loose prints. You don't see it adorning the artwork in churches.

One of those fellas looks like he shit his pants--do you think that's deliberate?

I don't see how you can put the theory to rest without investigating the production process for stenciling.

 

[thinbuddha]

I don't see how you can put the theory to rest without investigating the production process for stenciling.

Oh, I don't argue against stenciling in tarot production. It is clear that many woodcut decks were stenciled. I would say that *most* woodcut decks that are colored had the color applied with the aid of stencils. I don't think this brown on either deck is related to stenciling in any way.

In my opinion the coloring was placed there deliberately as an intentional decorative element. Obviously we aren't going to agree on this, but the brown that we see today would have been a *very* different color when it was applied. Pigments change immensely over time- especially when it is applied to something like a playing card that would have been handled a lot. I'm guessing it was originally a shade of red, with the black lines still visible under the coloring. Yes, I agree that it is somewhat ugly today, but I don't think it was ugly when it was applied by the original artists.

 

[Abrac]

thinbuddha, thanks for revisiting this subject. Looking at it again through fresh eyes I noticed a couple of things. Some of the cards are so old and faded it's hard to tell exactly what's going on, but you can see enough to tell it was probably all intentional. I think it must have been a more vibrant color when it was applied but for some reason it's turned brown with age. The only way to know for sure what it is would be to take a scraping and have it scientifically analyzed.

 

[Glitterbird]

Jumping into a discussion I know nothing about, just looking at the cards, I see symbols or a code maybe with the brown dots.

 

[Debra]

These cards were game pieces. The artwork in old cards is conventional for the time and place. So, can anyone point to other forms of artwork from the same area and time period that shows the same kind of thing?

eta: Have you ever tried stenciling? I have, and even with something simple, and a single try, it's a challenge to keep the stencil from slipping. Try it yourself. Copy one of the cards, cut stencils for three or four colors, and paint them, and imagine doing it fast, as part of a mass production process.

 

[gregory]

The Lombardische Tarot (aka Trieste) has brown dots too, as I recall. Sadly it is not here with me, so I can't be 1000% sure, but...

ETA yes, it does - see albideuter.

 

[le_charior]

The Lombardische Tarot (aka Trieste) has brown dots too, as I recall. Sadly it is not here with me, so I can't be 1000% sure, but...

Sadly like it you are sad because you would like to have it but don't? It's really easy to get in Germany on Amazon, I have one that I don't particularly care for...

Looking at my Bologna I am convinced they are there on purpose - but all the arguments have been brought up already in the thread, don't want to repeat them. I like the brownd dots and I don't think they are ugly at all - colorwise they go well with the Bologna color scheme and they add a little something to the deck - something's in the air. I can't really figure out what they could mean, but I like them.

 

[thinbuddha]

These cards were game pieces. The artwork in old cards is conventional for the time and place. So, can anyone point to other forms of artwork from the same area and time period that shows the same kind of thing?

But can't the same question be turned around? Can you show that other forms of artwork from the era that used stencils that were glued on and where the glue marred the image?

I'm not trying to beat a dead horse- just trying to be certain that I completely understand what you are saying.

 

[gregory]

Sadly like it you are sad because you would like to have it but don't? It's really easy to get in Germany on Amazon, I have one that I don't particularly care for...

No - I live in two countries. At the moment I am in the one where the collection (which includes that deck !) is not ! Don't worry !

 

[Laura Borealis]

The Lombardische Tarot (aka Trieste) has brown dots too, as I recall. Sadly it is not here with me, so I can't be 1000% sure, but...

ETA yes, it does - see albideuter.

Albideuter -- increasing your certitude to 1000%!


On topic, I've always thought they were deliberate (but I didn't go as far as thinking they're a code). The stencil error theory is making me take a second look, though.