Does reading tarot put us on the wrong end of the lightening bolt ?

[firemaiden]

Firemaiden, I agree that we choose to create who we are, but I'm not sure its a linear process most of the time. I think the 'decide' > 'commit' > 'act' process seems to work best with the biggest and smallest matters [...]

Agreed Aoife ! How nice to see you ! I would add that it works for very small units of time, and for a state of emergency experience - like the few seconds before and during a competition high dive. And in the case of opera performance any self-doubts, fears, problems which have been very carefully put aside before and during need to be thouroughly addressed afterward or there will be hell to pay. I have often said also that adrenalin forces anything -- feelings or ideas or fears -- which have been supressed to come violently churning up. All of those need to be profoundly dealt with. Sometimes it is a matter of learning how to talk back to the inner liar -- the one who makes up tons of negative stuff that if we really analysed it in the light of day we'd find absurd.

Now I'm sort of off the subject of tarot, but anyhow, if we let random chance choose the cards for us ... instead of choosing them for ourselves face up, what does that mean ?

 

[JSNYC]

... if we let random chance choose the cards for us ... instead of choosing them for ourselves face up, what does that mean ?

A very interesting question. As Richard Wilhelm says, the fact that there is no immediate and apparent "meaning" in random chance is what allows a supra-normal meaning to come to expression in it. If we choose them ourselves, it comes from "us", our conscious mind. The knower and the known. But when we are looking for the unknown, we must rely on chance. If not we are relying (only) on ourselves, the knower and what is known. I think most people are flipping over cards because they have found they are unable to do that. The answers being searched for are not within the known, if they were, we wouldn't be searching... Would we?

I started typing because I didn't understand your question... Now maybe I do. Interesting query.

 

[Aoife]

I have often said also that adrenalin forces anything -- feelings or ideas or fears -- which have been supressed to come violently churning up. All of those need to be profoundly dealt with. Sometimes it is a matter of learning how to talk back to the inner liar -- the one who makes up tons of negative stuff that if we really analysed it in the light of day we'd find absurd.

If we choose them ourselves, it comes from "us", our conscious mind. The knower and the known. But when we are looking for the unknown, we must rely on chance. If not we are relying (only) on ourselves, the knower and what is known.

What if the unknown was the unconscious... in the realms of the 'unknown self' in the Johari window. Seems to me that's one of the big tarot dichotomies... searching the unknown within -v- the unknown beyond.

What if, in chosing specific cards, we're not only trying to focus intent, but also provoking a kinda psychic-adrenalin rush? What if - "self-doubts, fears, problems which have been very carefully put aside before and during need to be thouroughly addressed afterward or there will be hell to pay" - the chosen cards contain those very self-doubts, fears and problems?

I think most people are flipping over cards because they have found they are unable to do that. The answers being searched for are not within the known, if they were, we wouldn't be searching... Would we?

But are we always searching for answers?

 

[nisaba]

But are we always searching for answers?

"I'm not looking for the answers
Darling can't you see
Just to know the Question
Is good enough for me." (Rosanne Cash, "The Wheel")

Sometimes the answers are beside the point - its more about not even the journey, but about our own readiness to face it.

 

[firemaiden]

What if the unknown was the unconscious... in the realms of the 'unknown self' in the Johari window. Seems to me that's one of the big tarot dichotomies... searching the unknown within -v- the unknown beyond.

I see the unknown as that unknown self, as well as further out. But is this a rhetoric "what if ?" Aoifie ? So we define the "unknown" as the unknown self ... so then what ? How does it affect how we read ? Is that what you're asking ?

What if, in chosing specific cards, we're not only trying to focus intent, but also provoking a kinda psychic-adrenalin rush? What if - "self-doubts, fears, problems which have been very carefully put aside before and during need to be thouroughly addressed afterward or there will be hell to pay" - the chosen cards contain those very self-doubts, fears and problems?

Again a rhetoric what if ? I would say if the cards, chosen specifically to provoke a happy result, have the opposite effect, then they have been very poorly chosen . But actually in situations where the negative self talk needs to be controlled I would not touch a tarot deck. LOL.

But are we always searching for answers?

Aoifie darling : engineers look for answers, intellectuals look for questions.

 

[JSNYC]

What if the unknown was the unconscious...

What nisaba and firemaiden said. I enclosed "us" in quotes to denote that the unknown is not inside the "I" that says "I am", the knower. However, I did not mean to suggest the unknown couldn’t be internal, inside the unconscious (or collective unconscious), or the 'unknown self' as you put it. Thus I was suggesting that "consciously" choosing cards comes from "us", the knower, not from the unknown. Random chance is the medium within which the unknown comes to expression, otherwise, "we" just “get in the way”.

But are we always searching for answers?

Not I, said the cat. As has already been stated, answers are reductive, new questions are expansive. A true expansion of consciousness requires new questions. I love the phrase Morpheus used (in the movie, The Matrix), "a splinter in our mind". Questions only lead to answers, that "splinter" is what leads to new questions. Some ignore that splinter, but I also believe not all of us can feel it. However, being on a board full of intuitives, I think it is likely most of us here do, or at least can… That splinter, when electrified through seeking, could begin to feel like a lightning bolt.

 

[Aoife]

So sorry if I came across as flippant.... caused by too little time and trying to capture something outside my reach.
On reflection, I think I was hypothesising that we very often read, not to find answers but to explore emotional reactions.
Oh bugger... I'm still not able to put coherently. Will come back later if/when I can make better sense.

 

[SakuraFae]

So sorry if I came across as flippant.... caused by too little time and trying to capture something outside my reach.
On reflection, I think I was hypothesising that we very often read, not to find answers but to explore emotional reactions.
Oh bugger... I'm still not able to put coherently. Will come back later if/when I can make better sense.

That makes sense to me Aoife, If I understand correctly....I`ve often said similar. Finding the true question is the struggle, and sometimes the reaction to the card pulled is more of an answer than the card itself.

We all have our answers within and are the only ones that know our story in totality. Telling our side is full of missing information (we are the sum of all of our experiences and they all reflect in each and every thought we have and it`s full of bias (ours and the listeners) as well as sometimes contains little white lies (sometimes we lie to ourselves and don`t even realize it).

 

[JSNYC]

So sorry if I came across as flippant....

I didn't think you came across as flippant, I thought your question was good... at least, if I understood it. Exploring, yes; emotional reactions... ummm... I think you mean you use emotions as a conduit to the "unknown self", if so, yes. That sounds like Teheuti's (excellent) equation in this post: Jungian analysis and the Tarot.

 

[Aerin]

On reflection, I think I was hypothesising that we very often read, not to find answers but to explore emotional reactions.

In a different or similar way to making a decision by tossing a coin and then seeing if you agree with the answer the coin provides or not? (And then going with your gut as a consequence.)