Does reading tarot put us on the wrong end of the lightening bolt ?

[Aoife]

Thank you so much SakuraFae, JSNYC and Aerin... your points are absolutely what I was trying to grasp.

JSNYC, thank you for the link to the thread... amazing stuff at first glance. Will make time to read in full asap.

I would say if the cards, chosen specifically to provoke a happy result, have the opposite effect, then they have been very poorly chosen

But what about the fact that all cards contain aspects of light, shade and dark?

But actually in situations where the negative self talk needs to be controlled I would not touch a tarot deck. LOL

Why?? Please say more?

 

[firemaiden]

But what about the fact that all cards contain aspects of light, shade and dark?

Well Aoifie, I would not pull out the nine of swords or the tower, or the devil. I would pull out the sun, and the nine of cups .... and take care not to turn them upside down. Does the sun have shady spots ? Up for discussion.

As for why I would not touch a tarot deck in situations where the negative self-talk needs to be controlled -- opening the tarot deck is like lifting up the manhole cover to hell ... if you let all the demons in with the purty red wings, how are you going to get them all back in the box without breaking any of their wings (and invoking the wrath of hell-dom) ? You promise them, "if you go back under the manhole cover, I promise to deal with you when the show is over. For now, I need you to keep cool. " It's the same reason that one is not allowed to invoke Macbeth, or have runs in stockings, or a hole in a shoe, or wear certain colours (green for France, purple for Italy) in the theater. The imagination must be controlled, -- the imagination run wild is the enemy of peak performance. In fact in my teacher's book she advises planning out every second of the moment leading up to the performance. Planning as you would plan the take off of a rocket, or a brain surgery. No room for error. You blow one detail, you explode ....

No, of course, life cannot be run with this kind of control. But learning how to dominate one's own negative thoughts is the key to mastery.

 

[Aoife]

I would pull out the sun, and the nine of cups .... and take care not to turn them upside down. Does the sun have shady spots ? Up for discussion.

Hmmm... light, warmth and water > organic fecundity.
But, a warning that you need to 'warm up' thoroughly or you could get fogged.
[I won't raise the spectre of what lies beneath Pixie's table]

 

[firemaiden]

[...] a warning that you need to 'warm up' thoroughly or you could get fogged.

Dearest Aoifie, please pardon the following lambasting...

"WARNING" ? WTF ? From cards I pick out myself to create good magic ? A "WARNING?" Have we been spending too much time with Edward Gorey ? or le Grand Tarot Belline ? Isn't it time to lose the vocabulary of 19th century fortune tellers ...

Behold the Belline speaks :

The Tower: "You are advancing toward your destruction : it will be the fruit of your carelessness or of your volontary mistakes. Crushed ambitions, lost forces, ruin, aborted hopes, death by catastrophe, crumbled powers."
Valet of Swords : "Criminal plots, danger of a trap, and of murder in public. ";
Knight of Swords : "Active intense hatred, always ready to do harm. Danger of death in the military.";
Valet of Wands (Scepters) : "Action, work, efforts for which you will never reap the fruit. Subjugation to the selfish interests and passions of others. "
Five of Coins : "- an undisciplined life which will paralyze good fortune, and late repentance. "​

Etc. Etc...

Which leads us to another topic ... is the tarot deck, or is it not, a pile of steaming red demons festering under a manhole cover ? If you take the percentage of (historically) negative cards, as represented by the Grand Belline and compare them to the positive cards, what do you get ?

Professional Hypothesis of the Great Firemaiden : historically the tarot is 90 % negative. Which leads us to the next question, why would we even touch a tarot deck, if almost every time we turn over a card, we are pulling down evil omens ?

"Ah, but we LIKE to pull down evil omens", I hear thee cry, "it prepares us to encounter reality which is 90% death torture and misery".

Cover your ears, Aoifie you've heard this all before: It's one thing not to hide from oneself the repressed truths of the inner self, but it's another thing to keep the head perpetually in the "commode" ... one day or another the stench deafens the eyes, and blinds the ears. Can we not pull our head out of the commode, close the cover, look to the sky, and behold the tweeting birds and the light sparkling through raindrops ?

YES YES YES, I postulate ... the more we look for beauty the more we see it, and contrarywise. I believe the human does not need help to see the negative. Our feet walk upon the earth, our steps pulverize millions of earthworms; who could avoid hearing the thunder of their screams ?

Which is why, when I read for certain people, who will not be mentioned here... but these certain people, they know who they are, don't they... I take the nine of swords and the tower card OUT of the deck ...

Where do we go from here ? Is there a role for the tarot in healing the pain-poisoned mind ?

 

[Aoife]

LOOK firemaiden, I'm SORRREEEE I sat on your button, ALRIGHT?
Its so cold here, and your button was so toasty... and anyway, if you will leave it littering the forum WADDYA EXPECT... eh eh?

Aoife shoos away bunnies and kitties and divests all manner of fluff that the Dame of Fire [didn't expect that, did ya... old married matron now ] had piled on her head

And what's with the lamb basting... unless of course you've finally learned how to cook? [Dog Oracle says Navarin of Lamb would be most acceptable]

I wasn't saying its all doom and gloom, I was talking about BALANCE
Surely magic is all about balance?
And what's with the evil omens?

Did you really used to take the Tower and 9 of Swords from the deck when you read for me?
Aoife places call to the Tarot Police

 

[JSNYC]

Which leads us to another topic ... is the tarot deck, or is it not, a pile of steaming red demons festering under a manhole cover ?

Wow, and I thought my Tarot was all "nicey, nice", "airy, fairy", and unrealistically optimistic... I guess perception is really all there is... Or maybe it is because I use the Shadowscapes Tarot!

Stephanie Pui-Mun Law:

Tower: Upheaval and sudden change, crisis, releasing all emotion, suffering a blow to the ego, revelation and seeing through illusions.
Page of Swords: Vigilance, honesty and truthfulness, scrutiny of beliefs, a strong sense of purpose.
Knight of Swords: The Knight of Swords is the brave hero who rushes headlong into conflict to defend his beliefs. He is blunt and comes directly to his point. He is domineering, a seeker...
Page of Wands: Creative, passionate, confident, assured and assertive. A messenger. Music is the universal language.
5 of Pentacles: Spiritual poverty, material troubles, insecurity, hard times, neglecting the body's needs, being ostracized and excluded.​

Well... the 5 of Pentacles is never nice. (From: Shadowscapes.com)

 

[Aerin]

Where do we go from here ? Is there a role for the tarot in healing the pain-poisoned mind ?

*cowers under table*

See this is why I don't read on a fixed future.

I like the Tower in the Hallowquest - it's a back to the pure basics card. Also the one in the Fey.

Get cheerier decks

 

[firemaiden]

iI wasn't saying its all doom and gloom, I was talking about BALANCE
Surely magic is all about balance?
And what's with the evil omens?

Did you really used to take the Tower and 9 of Swords from the deck when you read for me?
Aoife places call to the Tarot Police

Yes, darling I took out the cards because otherwise they were the only cards you got ... but you knew that. Now lets see, magic about balance ? Balance ? How about being about magic teaching us how to fly, even though we are earthbound ?

 

[gregory]

*cowers under table*

See this is why I don't read on a fixed future.

This is why I don't read with fixed MEANINGS

Joins Aerin...... *snuggle*

 

[firemaiden]

Get cheerier decks

Get out from under that table right now! *fm offers Aerin a scary crow-shaped cookie*. I picked the Belline to express my point, because it is an ancient deck with the meanings written straight on it (in French, and translated by me *fm takes a bow*) and it reveals the historical origins of today's generic tarot meanings. And YES it does a good job of showing us why we no longer favor fixed meanings ! It also shows us the worst case scenario of what reading tarot could mean -- as in : Oh no ! You got the nine of swords, the tower, the devil, the ten of swords, the three of swords, and the ten of wands ... WEAR A HELMET !!

If you were to pull these cards for yourself, or for a client, what would you do / say ? More importantly -- how would you turn the experience into something constructive ?