ravenest
I assumed as much. Unless you're Batman and actually do go out each night and beat people up.
Oh no! I would NEVER go around and beat people up!
Unless, of course, they deserved it
Fear
Oh no! I would NEVER go around and beat people up!
Unless, of course, they deserved it
ravenest
And you quoted THAT from Crowley on the OTO to show that it is 'just like any other mundane club' ???
WOW! Some wild 'mundane clubs' you must have in your part of the world?
Rather ... instead of trying (yet again) to downplay the OTO at the expense of the ever fantastic A A one could re phrase closrapexa's post to ask the same question and cite Crowley's AA initiation level ... and maybe refer to books like Regardie's 'What you should know about the Golden Dawn' ... who were a bunch of high initiates with NO psychological problems
Or even refer to this thread; http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=79895&highlight=magical+madness+part
Aeon418
Closrapexa's post, with it's reference to Crowley's XII degree and psychological problems, indicated to me that he was confusing initiation into a fraternity with 'initiation' in the spiritual development sense. But you will also note that I never made any claims that either sort of initiation will sort out psychological problems.
ravenest
It indicated to me that he was addressing an overall situation in relation to magical training / study / initiation and psychological health and I agree with him ... regardless of any nitpicking on how he described it.
If I was going to nitpick it would be about the XII th degree and about what that 'degree' actually is and how that degree is MORE likely to cause a 'psychological' problem than not taking it
If I was going to nitpick it would be about the XII th degree and about what that 'degree' actually is and how that degree is MORE likely to cause a 'psychological' problem than not taking it
Zephyros
Yes, I was wrong about the terminology, I guess I mean "dizzying levels of spiritual attainment." It still didn't cure his flaws or addictions, but then no one said they should have.
Richard
Did AC actually reach "dizzying levels of spiritual attainment," or was this a delusion?
Zephyros
Who can say? Maybe the entire Book of Law is one long heroin trip. However, as if for the purposes of an equation, it is useful to me to posit that he did, as a variable. However, I don't suppose a practitioner is expected to believe it. T'would probably be better if they didn't, tried the techniques and proved or disproved them themselves.
In any case, his huge body of work on the subject suggests that whatever happened to him, he did believe it.
Richard
I certainly believe that he believed it.
ETA: The strange silence about this issue is suspicious. AC thought that he had crossed the Abyss, but he seemed to remain the same person that he was before the experience.
ETA: The strange silence about this issue is suspicious. AC thought that he had crossed the Abyss, but he seemed to remain the same person that he was before the experience.
Aeon418
If I was going to nitpick it would be about the XII th degree and about what that 'degree' actually is and how that degree is MORE likely to cause a 'psychological' problem than not taking it
That might have been a joke if we were talking about the XIth and not the XIIth.
Aeon418
Then again it might be nothing more 'suspicious' than a time zone difference. Your original post was written at 3:04am my time.
I'm not sure where you're going with this. Perhaps you could clarify why you think Crowley should have been a different person after the crossing?
