LS Shaman Tarot

[RiccardoLS]

I have answered to questions on a different topic:
http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?p=2174378#post2174378

p.s.: I think I very much agree with Naneki.

 

[thorhammer]

Lillie - your posts have moved me, and I feel for you. It's brought up a lot of feelings I have about my own "culture" (which barely qualifies by most standards due to its youth) - but I won't go there coz that is off topic.

I just wanted to offer a possible basis for the attitude you're protesting against - this is not a justification and in no way suggests that I think it's right or that you're being hysterical or unreasonable.

I think that the British Empire's history of colonialism might have a lot to do with the world's assumption that it's okay to take on "British" heritage. It was, after all, forced on a great number of peoples all over the world, and I think in a lot of those countries the underlying attitude that "British/white=Good/successful" still prevails, whether the locals will admit it or not. So while the pressure of colonial Britain has eased off, the modern world has a fundamental understanding, if you like, that the British cultural paradigm is fair game.

Not that it's right. Just sayin'. Maybe it will give you another perspective and thereby a little peace. You sound so upset, and that hurts me.

\m/ Kat

 

[gregory]

Spiritual acquisitiveness is nasty - and that is not a bit like what we are discussing, I think - people who say they want to be a shaman and a yogi and wiccan and have a bit of tantra and buddhism on a side plate with the sufi - that was the kind of thing I meant. That kind of person doesn't genuinely commit to anything.

I do agree with Lillie that people from everywhere seem to regard Stonehenge as fair game, but I also agree with others who point out that since Britain systematically destroyed so many other cultures, we may have asked for it. That said - I prefer to look at world cultures now. Dividing them up continues to promulgate our differences and lead to arguments. That said - I also agree with naneki that the main thing is to treat whatever we are looking at - and in some cases wanting to subscribe to - with respect. What I like about this deck is the respect and "genuineness" it has - though I could be wrong..... If a shaman told me it was horribly wrong in terms of what it was showing, I would have to accept that, if you see what I mean.

What would NOT be OK would be to bang on about if the artist said that it's OK cos it's ART and their interpretation and so on. That is only OK as a line if you don't pretend it is - in this case - shamanistic.

What is even more not OK is to try and TAKE OVER another culture and then call it yours. "I read this book and it's great so now I'm a shaman cos it's really nice." Er - NO. THAT is what I'd call cultural misappropriation. For me to use a dreamcatcher because I think they work is not me trying to be Native American and misappropriating their culture; it is me having been given one as a gift and finding a genuine value in it.

And I am also with Lillie that I am not a Brit (when I am wearing that hat; I am also Canadian.) Not are Eyeties, Ozzies and Frogs any of those things. That kind of terminology is also culturally insulting.

 

[Aerin]

I like the approach of this deck too. But then I'm British as well - in fact I'm English although sometimes I feel I'm not allowed to say that. I also have Scottish and Cornish ancestry, and that's just to my knowledge.

For me it's about wanting to learn vs wanting to exploit, and there will always be people who want to do just one and people who want to do both. It's misrepresentation that I personally object to, that's not appropriation it is simply getting it wrong and sometimes not even caring about getting it wrong.

Also [generic rant, born of years of occasional *grrr], everyone is entitled to their feelings - I don't see how you can disagree wth someone's feelings. If I feel irritated because I believe that someone has misrepresented my culture then I'm allowed to (so there). You may not understand why but you can't deny that I feel like that - especially while, at the same time, demanding that I see your point of view. You can disagree with my reasons if you wish, but not my feelings.

The philosophy of this deck seems to be a learning one and an inclusive one and so good for you, deck.

 

[missy]

I see where you're coming from, but I have to say I disagree. The reason I feel uncomfortable with cultural appropriation from, for example, Native Americans, is that Americans pretty much destroyed their culture. Not me personally, or anyone alive today, but that feeling is still there. I feel it's wrong for the descendents of those who crushed a culture to try to claim it as part of their own, even if done in a respectful way (which so few do). I feel the same way about Europeans and white Americans interested in African spirituality.

Same here. I feel terrible about what my ancestors did to Native Americans, and what they have done to their land, which we have claimed as "ours."

So I, too, feel uncomfortable about cultural appropriation from Native Americans.

Still, I do have a dreamcatcher which was given to me years ago and which I treasure. I think of it as a reminder of a culture, mostly destroyed, which I admire. And I do love and enjoy it for its beauty and as of a reminder of that culture. I remember the Native American culture with reverence.

In a city I used to live in, a large number of the streets were named using Native American words, which hardly anyone knew what they meant. It just feels like a big 'f-you', like we came and crushed their beliefs and way of life so that we could name our suburban streets on their land with a bit of foriegn flair.

Yep.

It happens around here a lot. I get white America's new-age obsession with all things Celtic; that's where a majority of us our from, and it lives in our blood.

Yes. My ancestors were mostly Scottish. Some were Irish. I think Pennsylvania Dutch as well. I have a lot of Scottish pride. I bought the Fairy Ring Oracle and have had so much fun learning about the faeries from the place of my ancestors. I think it is entirely appropriate for me to want to learn about my ancestors and for me to identify with *my* heritage.

 

[gregory]

For me it's about wanting to learn vs wanting to exploit, and there will always be people who want to do just one and people who want to do both. It's misrepresentation that I personally object to, that's not appropriation it is simply getting it wrong and sometimes not even caring about getting it wrong.

YES !

Also [generic rant, born of years of occasional *grrr], everyone is entitled to their feelings - I don't see how you can disagree wth someone's feelings.

YES again !

The philosophy of this deck seems to be a learning one and an inclusive one and so good for you, deck.

You're good, Aerin - yes for a third time!

And I am only British rather than anything else cos I am a quarter Scots and married to a half Irish and basically I like the idea of the British Isles being a single (federal...) country rather than fragmenting. And can't call myself all English anyway.....

 

[missy]

I hear you, about the unity, but coming from a Scottish clan, it is only natural to be curious about one's clan, etc. I have my family tree, and it shows our clan and how we descended from Scotland.

And in the States, we aren't going to think of it in the same way as someone who is from the U.K. Things like Scottish clans have wonderful lore and mystery for us!

I am just going to say that I agree with Aerin, too, and leave it at that.

I am looking forward to this deck! I am not sure it is my style of deck, but I will be eyeing it from the wings.

 

[romanticdreamz]

Interesting thread and I'll be looking out for the deck as well.

I can't help but think I'm guilty of not finding my niche, admitting it here freely.

Living in England, yet born and raised in South Africa for 20 years and finding out one great-grandfather was Welsh, the other British and now soon to be married to a Scotsman, I'm one of those "huh?" types. I've had South Africans ask me where I'm from (!) and yet don't have an English/British accent at all, but obviously not a very strong South African one.

I think in some ways that explains my jigsaw puzzle of beliefs. With a combination of Catholicism, Tarot, Paganism and so on, I think I'm still finding what I believe in what I don't. That's not to say I do anything with disrespect. But I can relate to, and agree with, many aspects of different paths from Buddhism to Shamanism and various paths inbetween. Master of none? Perhaps. But learning as I go foward? I truly hope so.

 

[zan_chan]

Am I missing something? Are there more images than those three cards in the Amazon picture? I feel like we're making some very grand, assumptive statements about this deck if that's really all we've seen.

Looks very comic book-y to me anyhow...

 

[Alta]

Some images and a review (by me) will be posted in the weekly Aeclectic site update sometime this week.