Questions about Astrology

[Bernice]

It could be said that Astrology is both a Science and an Art. Not one or the other, but both. Now add in the various cultural and personal approaches.

Minderwiz quotes Nick Campion. Very good quotation. Astrology 'works' even when people use different outlooks, viewpoints, methods. Bump.

Bee

 

[Minderwiz]

Yes, I agree. In the last section of my previous post I was referring to the modern use of the word 'science' to equate with the hypothetico-deductive model of Karl Popper. Astrology is a science in the original meaning of the word - the practice of a discipline with its own rules. Campion actually says that he also views science as a view of the world primarily governed by natural processes rather than divine intervention.

My view is that the Astrologer is a vital factor in this process. The process whereby the symbols take on meaning, whether through intuition, innate faculties, or even God given faculties is something that we can take different views on. Notice that in this use of the word 'science' there is not necessarily a complete division of 'science' from 'religion'. It merely requires that the world is not subject to the random whims of gods but that there is a Cosmos - an ordered and predictable world.

 

[Bernice]

Miderwiz:...It merely requires that the world is not subject to the random whims of gods but that there is a Cosmos - an ordered and predictable world.

Ha ha. I gotta laugh because Einstein withdrew his final theory as it didn't accord with his personal view that the universe was 'ordered' (by God). Hence = Chaos! But a uniform chaos.

However chuckling aside, there is a universal Cause and Effect. And so we have a measure of predictability. Relative of course . And astrology can 'plug' into this in a universal way, unlike the tarot which is somewhat limited to the (RWS - if one uses them) meanings ascribed to each card, and the scope of the reader.

Bee

 

[SolSionnach]

I was just being difficult here. I know what you meant. But surely there are some theories. How does Mercury, when it appears to be moving retrograde, make communication go wonky? What does it do?
:::snip:::

Actually, Splungeman, I have no idea *how* this happens. I do know that given Merc's rulership of electronics and especially communication that it makes sense within the framework of astrology. But I don't know how it works.

 

[SolSionnach]

I am sorry my questions are irritating. They are just questions. How will I learn something if I am not permitted to ask questions, simply because they irriate the person I am asking?

Of course you can ask questions. But if you're being intentionally difficult, some folks will pick up on it, as I did, and react badly.

I would direct your attention to my last post, where I clarify that I did understand what you were saying before. I was being intentionally difficult, out of playful discourse, and admitted as much. I won't do that again, as I see now that this is a topic that easily arouses emotion.

I don't know how long you've been online, so forgive my presumption, but smilicons go a long way to change a seemingly-sarcastic post to a playful one...

You don't have to answer the questions or even continue to follow this thread if you don't want to. You seem to be quite knowledgeable in the subject, however, so it would be a shame to lose your insight.

Thanks, but I don't consider myself knowledgeable, except as a layperson. I do know a thing or two, but have a hard time synthesizing what I know into an astrological reading.

I'll restate my last questions and say again I am not trying to irritate. If anything the advantage to you here is that you can work of your answers to these kinds of questions should they arise again from others. It is my hope that these questions might provoke thought which in turn might provoke further learning.

In addition...are there any theories about how the planets influence behavior? Gravity?

There are lots of theories, and I guess I'm in the place of not caring much about that, so I'll leave it to others to answer. I've seen gravity debunked as the gravitational pull between me and my dog (who is about 4 1/2 feet away from me) is much much stronger than the gravitational pull from Pluto. That being said, I've survived major Pluto transits in my lifetime, and I do feel them!

Sorry for being so irritable. If you go to the "TdM for beginners" thread you'll see me go off on Umbrae, as well. I'm having a Mars transit (I really feel those, too!), which is leaving me rather feisty - to say the least. I'm sorry that I jumped on you. Friends?

 

[SolSionnach]

:::snip:::
Many modern astrologers, in so far as they try to explain the 'how' tend to try to do so in scientific terms. By this I mean that they advance answers which in principle could be tested empirically and theories created.

Personally, and this is a personal view, this is misguided.

Yes yes yes yes YES. This is why I was so ill-disposed to the question in the first place.

There is a divine dimension (in the broadest sense) to Astrology and this cannot by definition be reduced to empirical analysis (though this plays a role). It is the interaction of Astrologer and the symbols, whether these are general (such as the Sun) or specific (such as the Sun in Leo ruling the tenth house and trine Jupiter) that is important' and which produces meaningful results.

I don't think that a scientific approach is ultimately productive but to someone who demands 'scientific proof' (and anyone who knows their scientific method knows that science can never prove anything) this answer is never going to be convincing.

Now there are many astrologers who would not agree with my personal statement. In a real sense you pay your money and you take your choice.

Well, I think you hit it out of the park, fwiw.

 

[Splungeman]

What happens when a new planet is discovered?

 

[Splungeman]

Of course you can ask questions. But if you're being intentionally difficult, some folks will pick up on it, as I did, and react badly. I don't know how long you've been online, so forgive my presumption, but smilicons go a long way to change a seemingly-sarcastic post to a playful one... Thanks, but I don't consider myself knowledgeable, except as a layperson. I do know a thing or two, but have a hard time synthesizing what I know into an astrological reading.
There are lots of theories, and I guess I'm in the place of not caring much about that, so I'll leave it to others to answer. I've seen gravity debunked as the gravitational pull between me and my dog (who is about 4 1/2 feet away from me) is much much stronger than the gravitational pull from Pluto. That being said, I've survived major Pluto transits in my lifetime, and I do feel them!

Sorry for being so irritable. If you go to the "TdM for beginners" thread you'll see me go off on Umbrae, as well. I'm having a Mars transit (I really feel those, too!), which is leaving me rather feisty - to say the least. I'm sorry that I jumped on you. Friends?

Friends....? FRIENDS....?! BWA HA HA HA!!! Oh no....not us!! From this day forward we shall be arch-rivals!! You can call me Dr. Skeptic! You will squirm with anxiety as I quote from the likes of James Randi, Penn Jillette, Richard Dawkins, Carl Sagan, and others even more hideously skeptical!! And as I summon these denizens of scientific thought from the bowels of the laboratories, magic shows, and yes...even the GRAVE...I shall laugh fiendishly and calculate on my Texas Instruments calculator the distance fleas leap on the back of my cat!!!! BWA HA HA HA HAAAAAA!!

(See...I do use emoticons)

But seriously...

I will not admit to being intentionally difficult or abrasive. I understand that my questions may be perceived as inflammatory, but that is not the intention behind them. It's just like my asking in Sunday school class why parts of the Bible contradict each other if it's supposed to be a perfect book written by God? The question was not received well and was given an unsatisfactory answer that was more a condemnation of me than a real answer. It was as if the teacher had never been asked that before and simply dealt with me by condemning me as a troublemaker. I found it a legitimate question that an expert should be able to answer, or at least give a good reason why they didn't know. Later on I had the audacity to compare Jesus to a Zen monk and was asked not to come back.

I understand that skeptical questions can irritate. But can't they also provoke further thought? Maybe there is something about astrology that can be simplified or understood better by asking hard questions. I understand as well that some may not want to go down that road for whatever reason, and I respect that. I just hope there will be somebody who will bear with me...

Thus far, my question about what the planets actually DO has been answered with (to simplify) "We don't know what they do...we can't know what they do." I can accept that. At least it's a better answer than I got from that darn Sunday school teacher about the Bible.

My other questions are still out there...the one regarding Mercury in retrograde being a good thing for salespeople and the one about new planets. What about those?

 

[Minderwiz]

What happens when a new planet is discovered?

Modern Western Astrologers rush to put an interpretation on it and to try and get hold of epemerides. The 'planet' then turns out to be something else.

There is no reason why new symbols have to be added to a symbolic language. Personally I don't use many of the entities that have been discovered since the invention of the telescope. I use Uranus and Neptune very sparingly if at all and Pluto is some evidence for the point above. Generally, for planets, if I can't see it then I don't use it.

Now again that's a very personal point of view but is in line with both traditional Astrology in the West and Vedic Astrology. For me, there are already sufficient symbols to work with, I don't need to have new ones, of doubtful (if any) meaning, forced on to me.

If others do wish to incorporate such objects into their symbolic langage then that is their choice. As I said in a previous post Astrology has many different expressions.

 

[SolSionnach]

I will not admit to being intentionally difficult or abrasive.

I quote you, in post #7:

I was just being difficult here. I know what you meant.

I'm done with this conversation.