Real world clarifications, please

[Mellifluous]

I'm in the process of getting my web site together, and I've started reading Jette's Professional Tarot. I was also planning to consult with SCORE - though I've found them unhelpful in the past - and maybe an accountant or (hopefully not) a lawyer just to make sure everything is done correctly.

However, after poking around the threads on here and reading several parts of the book (and some other resources) I'm wondering a few things. I'd appreciate any replies based on experience from those of you who are already earning this way.

1) People who read online (or by mail) and send images of the specific cards pulled for a client along with the reading: did you actually ask and obtain permission from the deck artists or publishers?

If not, why not? If so, could you give an idea of how much they charged you (if anything) to use their cards in this way?

I'm not talking about putting images on your web site or advertisements as I won't be doing that - only sending them along as an enhancement to readings.

2) It's my understanding from reading various sources that most likely a tarot reading business will be considered a hobby for many years if not always (in the eyes of the IRS). In light of that, do you feel it's really necessary to go through some of the steps Jette recommends? Like

*Asking a bunch of official agencies about licensing and home permits

(My readings for pay will be done only online for the foreseeable future, not in person.)

*Registering a businessname and/or registering a trademark/patent on your name + logo

First off, I looked into trademarks last year for another reason and I was under the impression you cannot even claim one unless your business becomes quite successful and you garner a reputation such that people popularly associate a certain image/font/etc. with you and your business.

Second, obviously, one can create screen names/email accounts and register domain names at will on the internet. Even selling other items, if you were ever to do that, is quite simple to set up on web sites these days. Is it really necessary to register a business name for something that is most likely only going to be "a hobby"? Or to open separate bank accounts other than for the purpose of avoiding confusion in your personal bookkeeping?

I'm not planning to be unsuccessful, lol, but all resources seem to indicate that it usually takes a few years for a tarot reading business to generate much profit if it ever does. So, I'm wondering if all of this worry, paying of fees (or for liability insurance), and consulting legal entities and/or other paid professionals is really necessary for putting up a small site and accepting payments through paypal (or some similar processor).

Sometimes it seems to me people get more done when they just start doing it, rather than asking everyone around for permission and making a big production out of it. It seems to me sort of like the difference between opening a store (complicated) and having a yard sale or selling your things on ebay as an individual (low maintenance and informal). What are your own experiences?

Also, for people aware of legal regulations regarding psychological counselling (though perhaps it varies widely from place to place), do you feel or know that the disclaimer 'for entertainment purposes only' protects you from accusations of counselling people without a license? Or does no one else even worry about this?

Thanks very much in advance!

 

[rebecca-smiles]

Well i'm not pro, but my mum was for a little while (she had enough in the end, as she likes to do spiritual work with tarot instead of relationship etc readings) and she has also done semi pro work with art. In both cases she has had ample work via a little local store add and word of mouth (tarot) and a website (artwork) and nothing else.

for what my inexperienced opinion is worth, it sounds a lot of work and complication that will eat into resources and time when you could just do it, and add these things as and when needed

Is your website up yet?

 

[Grizabella]

As for sending the images, I see nothing wrong with that any more than sending pictures of them to a friend would be a problem. You're not putting them out publicly and trying to claim ownership of them. Sending the images to one person in a private tarot reading can't be construed as plagiarism by any stretch of the imagination and wouldn't be a legal liablility.

Honestly, in readings I've done and will do online, I see no reason to send images of the layout and cards. Unless you're going to do a live chat reading with the client and want them to have some way to see the cards and interact with you, that is, but doing email readings, I don't see the need. It's up to you, of course, though.

 

[Mellifluous]

Thank you both so much for replying!

Well i'm not pro, but my mum was for a little while (she had enough in the end, as she likes to do spiritual work with tarot instead of relationship etc readings) and she has also done semi pro work with art. In both cases she has had ample work via a little local store add and word of mouth (tarot) and a website (artwork) and nothing else.

for what my inexperienced opinion is worth, it sounds a lot of work and complication that will eat into resources and time when you could just do it, and add these things as and when needed

Is your website up yet?

Insert huge sigh of relief here! (And I think I envy your mother a little.) lol That's exactly what I was thinking. It would just delay things for weeks... and cost money. Also, I imagine I'd encounter a lot of negativity from people in more traditional professions because it's tarot reading, though maybe I shouldn't jump to conclusions about that.

No, it's not up just yet. I've got my domain name and a web host, but I'm thinking over the design and content (even though there won't be a huge amount, lol), and just looking into all of the business-y aspects before I put it up. I want to make sure everything reflects me accurately and I'd like to ward off any future trouble.

When it's all ready to go I'll at least put a link in my profile if not mention it in the advertising area. Thanks again for your input!

As for sending the images, I see nothing wrong with that any more than sending pictures of them to a friend would be a problem. You're not putting them out publicly and trying to claim ownership of them. Sending the images to one person in a private tarot reading can't be construed as plagiarism by any stretch of the imagination and wouldn't be a legal liablility.

Honestly, in readings I've done and will do online, I see no reason to send images of the layout and cards. Unless you're going to do a live chat reading with the client and want them to have some way to see the cards and interact with you, that is, but doing email readings, I don't see the need. It's up to you, of course, though.

Yes, this is what I've been thinking lately, too: there's no real reason to send the cards at all. I suppose it could make things prettier but if it's by email it's would be a separate attachment anyway so the effect is not really the same. Plus, there are so many decks online now, people could look up the individual cards in whatever deck appeals to them.

Thank you for your comments about plaigiarism, too. I tend to agree. Plus, obviously, if you were reading in person the client would get to see the cards anyway. I guess it's just fear of litigious deck creators 'out there' getting to me. lol

Thanks again, both of you, for taking the time to reply. It's much appreciated!

 

[abella]

"1) People who read online (or by mail) and send images of the specific cards pulled for a client along with the reading: did you actually ask and obtain permission from the deck artists or publishers?

If not, why not? If so, could you give an idea of how much they charged you (if anything) to use their cards in this way?

I'm not talking about putting images on your web site or advertisements as I won't be doing that - only sending them along as an enhancement to readings."

I don't send pictures. It looks more professional if I don't and the only clients who want them are those that know or want to know something about Tarot.

I always ask readers: Are you teaching Tarot or giving a reading? And if you are doing both, ensure you are being paid more.

 

[Mellifluous]

Very interesting point! Thank you for your reply, abella.

(Omitting them would save time, too. lol)

 

[abella]

Very interesting point! Thank you for your reply, abella.
(Omitting them would save time, too. lol)

Cheers. It would also be fair to say that those readers who use cards to help a seeker answer questions themselves (consulting, therapy, etc.), would do well using the pictures coupling it with "What do you see in this picture? or beyond what I have said?" and then having a dialogue about it where the seeker is mostly responsible for their answers and teaches them how to do their own readings.

This, of course, is time consuming and most seekers are not interested in their own opinion (strange as it may be) -- they want yours. So if a reader does this, I suggest charging accordingly as the reader has the potential of not getting repeat business after they have shown someone how to do it themselves.

Of course, I'm approaching this from a totally business mind. My social worker, wisdom guide mind would say something completely different.

 

[abella]

Very interesting point! Thank you for your reply, abella.

redux...

Also consider that a lot of computer programs use cards, name the cards, and then describe so some seekers don't see "value" if you are a reader that does that. They might think it's computer generated or pre-set descriptions of the cards rather than a highly personal account (story) of their lives.

I think the most important thing in figuring out if this style is the way for you is knowing why you are doing it and the outcome from doing it. In other words, don't do what others do just because that's how they are doing it. Do it because it's the right thing to do for you.

Alrighty, I'm finished babbling. *grin*

 

[Baccus93]

The IRS considers any effort that earns more than $600 in a year to be a source of income, not a hobby. So the legal text is simple.

If you want to consider it a hobby and have no real attachment to things like Registered Trademarks and Logos (which anyone with $500 can register, regardless of success - it just requires "success" as a marker to get any thing out of an "infringement" lawsuit), be my guest - but keep in mind that if you make more than a "hobby" income with it, you will be filing an I9 tax form and claiming the income - so yes, you may want to be sure to keep good records. And remember, you can write off your expenses like Tarot decks and trips taken and so forth.

Working online? I've been working as an online Tarot consultant since mid December and I made $600 in my first two weeks. Well, there goes the tax free status! I make a full-time income at it, so don't sell yourself short on what you can accomplish. Of course, I work full time doing it and sometimes have to work a little later just to be sure.

 

[Umbrae]

1) People who read online (or by mail) and send images of the specific cards pulled for a client along with the reading: did you actually ask and obtain permission from the deck artists or publishers?

Yes. Always ask permission before using the work of another.

2) It's my understanding from reading various sources that most likely a tarot reading business will be considered a hobby for many years if not always (in the eyes of the IRS). In light of that, do you feel it's really necessary to go through some of the steps Jette recommends? Like

*Asking a bunch of official agencies about licensing and home permits

(My readings for pay will be done only online for the foreseeable future, not in person.)

*Registering a businessname and/or registering a trademark/patent on your name + logo

It depends on local laws. As laws vary from state to state, and even cities and counties within the state, do your homework – stay legal.

When you begin, I don’t see a need for trademarks etc. Just be sure to use your own. I’ve seen readers use artwork of others on their site. It’s tacky, it’s illegal.

Even selling other items, if you were ever to do that, is quite simple to set up on web sites these days. Is it really necessary to register a business name for something that is most likely only going to be "a hobby"? Or to open separate bank accounts other than for the purpose of avoiding confusion in your personal bookkeeping?

Once again, it depends on where you live. You may or may not have to register a fictitious name statement.

I'm not planning to be unsuccessful, lol, but all resources seem to indicate that it usually takes a few years for a tarot reading business to generate much profit if it ever does. So, I'm wondering if all of this worry, paying of fees (or for liability insurance), and consulting legal entities and/or other paid professionals is really necessary for putting up a small site and accepting payments through paypal (or some similar processor).

Sometimes it seems to me people get more done when they just start doing it, rather than asking everyone around for permission and making a big production out of it. It seems to me sort of like the difference between opening a store (complicated) and having a yard sale or selling your things on ebay as an individual (low maintenance and informal). What are your own experiences?

Also, for people aware of legal regulations regarding psychological counselling (though perhaps it varies widely from place to place), do you feel or know that the disclaimer 'for entertainment purposes only' protects you from accusations of counselling people without a license? Or does no one else even worry about this?

Are you really psychological counseling? Or are you Spiritual Counseling?

The ‘Entertainment Purposes Only’ is a disclaimer that although I abhor, I understand its necessity. It prevents lawsuits (when Mr. Right does not fall in love etc.).

You can slide under the radar for a while if you operate on a cash only basis. But once your income becomes noticeable, and or ‘traceable’ (checks, or PayPal), you’d best get a license and pay the taxes.

All you need is one hungry junior DA with a hard-on for ‘Psychics’ and who wants to ‘clean up the town’, and you’re in deep water really fast.

I worked Cash Only Face to Face (never in the home) with no storefront for many years. I flew under the radar. Now I have EIN numbers, an accountant, tax returns in two states (and federal).

Oh – and always always always create a separate bank account for the reading side of your life. Do not ever ever mingle money, once you move up from ‘cash only’.

Stay safe, stay legal. Otherwise you’ll have a newspaper article about you: It Wasn’t in the Cards? Tarot reader obviously could not foretell the future when police raided her…blah blah blah. You get the picture.