The 8 of Swords revisited...

[LittleWing]

8 swords

' you do have the mental strength within you - it is your fears which are imobalising you. re-focus is required '

 

[Belladonna]

Wow! Thank all of you for that amazing insight. It certainly gave me food for thought with my coffee this morning. I would like to try to respond to what all of you have said.

RedEarth, I think many people agree with you about the mental anguish, and that the blockage represented in this card is internal. Anger is a good suggestion. That one never really occured to me before. I'll have to keep my eyes open to that possibility. Also the need to focus to proceed.

Moongold, I don't mind confusing! Anything that broadens my horizons is welcome. I was primarily talking about RWS-like decks, but I've been thinking a lot recently about trying to acquire a Marseilles deck. You've certainly picqued my curiosity. I can see how much I'm missing! I really liked your view of the 2 of Swords and actually, I don't think that it necessarily conflicts with the RWS image. Receptivity, adaptability. I'm going to add that to my journal. And the idea of the 8 of Swords representing control over the mind instead of being trapped by the mind... I love it. This, too, I'd like to write down and think about more. I work with reversals and like using the flip side interpretations.
As the 8 follows the 7, I can see how it would be the natural progression of communication. Where it was hidden, restricted, indirect in the 7, now it flows more smoothly, or perhaps now we are more aware of it...

IndigoLady, I know what you mean. If I think about the 8 of wands and how it can represent the "coming about" of what was previously set into motion, and compare that to the 8 of swords and see how that can represent the coming about of what was begun in the mind... sickness would be an example of that. So, if it was a warning, then perhaps what Moongold said would be especially applicable. To exercise control over the mind. Perhaps to be aware of and deal with anger issues as RedEarth suggested. Be aware of the options, focus, and take action to avoid ???

Sobeknofret, I like how you suggest that there has been some progression, but not quite enough yet. Is the progression her awareness of the situation, as painful or confusing as that may be?

My four year old is losing patience with me. Will sign off for now, but I would still like to come back soon to address everyone else's helpful and informative posts. Thank you!

 

[Ruby Red Slippers]

Belladonna:

Interesting thread with lots of great interpretations.....

The one thing that always struck me on these two cards was the
WATER..............WATER ......representing emotion...............

In the 2 she sits in front of the emotion and it is vast.....

In the 8 she is in the water, but it is much more manageable

Also the rocks in the water from the 2 have now become a castle in the 8.....

8's for me are about 'movement' of some kind that happens out of the faith in self from the seven's. Therefore, I think she has moved from sitting in front of the emotion to immersing herself in it taking the risks, dealing with "whatever" and comes to a crossroad to move with the eight, "she 'know' but has not integrated this into her being yet.....

Just my thoughts...

Ruby Red Slippers

 

[Belladonna]

O.K. Once again, thank you all so much for your invaluable insight. Very enlightening. I think what I've got out of this so far goes something like this.

The 8 of Swords represents a need for control of the mind, for focus, for making a difficult choice in order to extricate oneself from feeling trapped or blocked. These feelings of anguish may be purely mental confusion, chaos, or emotions such as anger. There is less denial than the 2 of Swords/ less acceptance or willingness to compromise. This woman is facing her demons, but has not yet quite found the way forward.

So how many of you associate the idea of there being two distinct choices to choose from?

And how important is the idea of direct and open communication attributed to this card?

 

[Thirteen]

Communication is Key!

Originally posted by Belladonna So how many of you associate the idea of there being two distinct choices to choose from?

There may be two, distinct choices--but I think they distract us from the real meaning of the card. Afterall, the lady's current choices, as implied by the RW picture, are to sit restrained and blind, waiting for the tide to rise and drown her (Ruby's point about the water is well taken!), or interact with those swords. Are those really choices? They sound like two varients of the same thing to me.

We get back to the difference between 8/Swords and 2/Swords. 2's are all about balancing that yin/yang. Not merging them, that's for 3's, but balance. And thus, the two sides of a question, the two choices or positions, are very distinct.

By the 8's, we're beyond choices and duality, we're into movement--and change--inner Strength or Judgement (which ever you believe is card #8 in the majors). It's VERY telling that an #8, all about movement, pictures a person trapped and unable to move. That those swords surround her in EVERY direction.

And how important is the idea of direct and open communication attributed to this card?

Very important, I'd say. I've always seen this card as the one you get when you really want to tell someone something--but know they're going to cut you to ribbons when/if you do.

This, by the way, clarifies what I mean about the card NOT being about those two, distracting choices: In human society, control over communication is, well, the whole enchilada. Control over what we know, over what we get to say, over what we get to hear. Keeping a secret, deciding who to tell it to, is power--because knowledge controls our actions.

The Lady in the chair has control over knowledge (she knows something), but she's restrained from saying it. Censored by her own emotions, fears or perhaps by others. The two "choices" (speak and get cut or stay quiet and drown) are just alternate versions of being restrained, controlled, silenced. Getting away (movement! action!) from the situation entirely, so that you can communicate freely and without fear, is the real answer, the only way to enact a true change.

 

[Belladonna]

So well said, Thirteen. I appreciate your clarity! Thank you. It's so refreshing to go over these cards every once in awhile and explore them anew with such attention to detail and asking new questions, comparing them to other cards... Thank you everyone! Of course, if anyone has anything else to add, I'm all ears!

 

[Ruby Red Slippers]

I think this is a great thread Belladonna, Thank you for bringing it up.

Today, I have revisited, and once again absorbed what everyone said.....such introspection, and it is easy to see why Tarot srudy is a life long passion....

Looking at my new MerryDay deck and Louisa Poole uses the key phrase, "Inner tranquility" for the 2 of Swords.

This made me think about the fact that may sometimes the 2 can mean "ignorance is bliss" - after all she is not "in" any emotion, she is blindfolded. Perhpas she has just "removed" herself from the situation. We all know people who play it very safe emotionally. I'm not always sure this is a conscious act for them. We live in a society of "sheep -mass mentality" that it is easier "not to feel" or think. In other words we create our own inner tranquility. Is this still duality, since the outside may be a different reality than a Personal reality? Could it be a person who just marches to the beat of a different drummer? For some people there is no "choice" and most likely never will be. Could this card ever represent mental illness?

Just more random thoughts....of course hopefully the other card would shed light on a specific reading....but it is interesting to "step out of the box" and look at all sides....

Now that I write this BOTH these ladies are in thier own self-created boxes.....

Ruby Red Slippers

 

[Belladonna]

Ruby Red, I think I would like to explore the 2 of Swords more. I think it deserves a thread all its own, so I'm going to start one right now!

 

[Moongold]

Another look at the 8 of Swords?

I see a woman standing in puddles of water from a nearby lake. She is blindfolded and her arms bound behind her back. You can’t actually see whether her hands are bound or not and this is one of the mysteries of the image. seven Swords are stuck in the sand behind her and one is right in front of her, almost confronting her. This is a second mystery.

Back to the first mystery, are the woman’s hands tied behind her back or not? Can she break free if she wants to? I think this is really important. In front of her stands a sole sword. No-one has pointed this out before. Even respected books state that the woman can be seen against a background of swords. Well, what about the one in front of her? her face, although blindfolded is turned towards the solitary sword and her feet lookas though she just might be thinking og stepping towards the sword in front.
How much is this woman imprisoned and by whom or what? Is the image a symbol of someone rendered powerless by others? It could be depending on other cards in the throw. Or could she have placed herself there? Or is the image simple a mystical metaphor for a poignant spiritual state?

What does the sword standing before the mean? This is the second mystery. Is it there to taunt her or does it represent something on a much higher level than that? Swords represent the element of air. Air is often seen as something infinite and diving, without which nothing can exist. Air is a life giving element which enters the body with each breath. In this way the image could be seen as a highly spiritual one, with the woman faced with a choice or a challenge to aim for the highest levels of beauty and spirituality if she can step forward and free herself with this one sword. In some ways this sword can represent a poignant dark night of the soul. The swords could represent spiritual beauty and purity. The “Twos” are in the second highest level of the Tree of Life and represent something really valuable in a spiritual sens – a person on the brink of a mystical discovery. In my original contribution to this thread I speculated that the woman’s position reminded me of the rituals deeply religious people used to undergo to prove their love of God.

I haven’t read the original RWS texts so I’m not sure what the approach of Colman-Smth or Waite was. However the card has often been seen in contemporary readings as emphasizing entrapment, spiritual paralysis, mental pain, mental illness, self-imprisonment. I guess it depends on the context and that space within the reader herself. Maybe there are some other options still worth exploring?

 

[willowberry]

I see the eight as pretty much the same as you guys, someone who has let themselves be trapped by their own hand. The woman is bound and blindfolded but her feet are not tied, she could break free if only she had the mental strength or the clarity to see that. She seems peaceful, it reminds me of the moment that you think everything is ok, to realising that what you've been doing of late just isn't true to yourself. Because its a mental card, I also feel it is a card where one has talked oneself into something and convinced themselves that they are taking the right course of action, even though their intuition, the water at her feet, is being ignored or not seen. The whole denial thing, but once the blindfold is lifted she will be able to break free and slowly see the situation for what it is. My only hope is that she doesn't spend too much time berating herself and uses the moment to really move on without guilt or other destructive thought patterns.

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