The Four Worlds/The Four Suits - the Order

[GnosticTarotCards]

The entire Golden Dawn marginalized Eliphas Levi. Its a fact. This is something that historians have proven, and that his corespondances were bastardized into the golden dawn version of attributions. I am not "believing' in french masonry.. I KNOW.

Its not like im an outsider on the Western Mysteries but an actual member. My mentor who is Grandmaster of both Western Golden Dawn and European French Traditions, including Martinist etc. told me about the entire issue. Other than that, the tree attributions are not arbitrary, they mean alot. Its the subtle world of yetzeriah that is most damaged when misusing a tree. I can't promote this idea enough. It causes funny thinking when based upon the "law of analogy" you mess with the fundementals of that system. If you start postulating the Golden Dawn system, the ToL will not work the way its intended to. Which is a way of alchemical transformation

IM not pretending like others you might talk to about this, its factual. The tree of life is a symbolic image that is best described as a mandala, using that mandala properly similar to Kalachakra Tantra you MUST understand the specific dynamics of it. In order to do that you MUST relate it wholistically to a working MACROCOSM. You can't just make stuff up and then ask your soul to conform to that structure. It won't work..

Im not really going to press the GD VS. European system in this particular thread anymore. However the Four Worlds in a Purely Kabbalistic notion. The four suits / Four Worlds conversation is what is important here, which is what originally I was referring to.

Now the four worlds represents the four subtle realms of existence , they only matter if you practice a Kabbalistic practice, if you don't want to utilize kabbalah then it doesn't matter. However if you do the best and most authentic derivation is the 3,7,12. Kabbalah for the four worlds to work must have the 3,7,12 because of the secret initiatic method of practice using the tree in meditation.

FINIS

Tim.

 

[ravenest]

Sun isn't Pisces.

Huh?

Sun - Pisces
Judgement - Saturn
World - Fire

The SUN CARD is ATTRIBUTED to Pisces I meant. What I meant is what you wrote.

I dint mean the FOOL CARD is attributed to Pisces because .... you didn’t write that.

Sun is the Fool that the entire show revolves around.

Yes I saw that, it was at the top.

... The astrology goes as follows ....
Astrological Attributions
Fool - The Sun
... The Sun is not Pisces the sun is the centre of the entire Drama of Tarrochi. If that is understood then we can look how astrologically the tarot can really knock us out..

Yes, I read that, that is the bit I like. Of course the Sun is the centre in an astrological scheme. And the Fool, validly, can be seen as the centre of the' Trump Scheme'.

Still, The Sun CARD being attributed to Pisces seems a tad odd to me ... so far

 

[ravenest]

Just a point of proceedure.

I'd suggest to turn the name of this thread to "Golden Dawn Tree of Life VS. Other Traditions"

That wouldn't be 'Kosh'. Its the first posters THREAD and why should they change the name? If the ideas that come up in a thread need their own thread it is polite proceedure to split to another thread if you like and you can call that split thread what you like ... or sometimes the moderator might make the split.

This FORUM is Kabbalah & Alphabets, I am sure there is a space here for a THREAD entiteled "Golden Dawn Tree of Life VS. Other Traditions".

If you want the FORUM name changed to "Golden Dawn Tree of Life VS. Other Traditions", that is something to take up with the moderator.

However the poster doesn't seem to mind, and we appear to be getting away with it ... so far

 

[ravenest]

.

Ultimately, as Dion Fortune said in a quote I favor highly, that "Qabalah is not a body of knowledge, but a method of thinking" or something to that effect.

Yes, very apt. It is one of the ways we try to get back the way the mind 'used' to work ... again I Highly reccommend (on this subject) 'The Alchemists Secret Fire - A History of the Imagination.'

 

[Richard]

The entire Golden Dawn marginalized Eliphas Levi. Its a fact. This is something that historians have proven, and that his corespondances were bastardized into the golden dawn version of attributions. I am not "believing' in french masonry.. I KNOW........

Sorry, that's not quite what I believe happened, but what do I know? I'm not a 99th degree Memphis-Mizraim Mason, not that I really believe that astronomical degree numbers necessarily confer any special enlightenment beyond that of an humble 32nd degree Scottish Rite Mason or even a lowly 3rd degree Master Mason.

 

[ravenest]

" Brethren of the Rosy Cross! Aspirants to the Silver Star! Not until these are ended can ye come to the centre of the wheel. ".

 

[GnosticTarotCards]

The mm and scottish rites are not what im referring to. inside those systems is a group of teaching called the "graal" which is a term similar to gradual. in profane language its the "Grail"

in this graal path, the inner work of the mystery schools is learned then performed, the Dorian and ioinian initiations. when you learn masonic rites and practices intellectually you are right it doesnt do much, but thats not the graal. when you are walked through the graal you develop internally and spiritually by certain transformations in the soul, or what the martinists called, "regeneration"

kabbalah has two trees the primordial tree and the fallen tree. the purpose of all the attributions of the " paths" is so you can regenerate yourself to a pre fallen condition so you can build in malkuth a new humanity

FREE MASON - Free builder, then you are a master Tekton like Mar Yeshua

in GNOSIS

Tim

 

[Zephyros]

As to Mr. Waite's constant pomposities, he seems to think that the obscurer his style and the vaguer his phrases, the greater initiate he will appear...

And do for God's sake, Arthur, drop your eternal hinting, hinting, hinting, "Oh what an exalted grade I have, if you poor dull uninitiated people would only perceive it!"

GnosticTarotCards, you are obviously very learned about the subject, but I am not. I would be interested if you would explain your theories about the four worlds clearly, as you would have liked to have it explained to you during your novitiate.

 

[GnosticTarotCards]

Ok, I have your attention...

The Four Worlds comes from Zoharic sources, they mean the subtle formations of matter in gradual process. In the highest Atzulit the Sefirot (Centers of principles) are created, then in Briah the Letters are Created, then in Yetzeriah the Angels created finally in Assiah the Physical world is created. The four worlds are subtle realms of potential power and creative impulses. This is similar to quantum physics "Plank" and "Superstring" there is a infinite source of all that is , which is called Keter, or One. That One makes itself known in other worlds, First Letter, First Angel, First Rock, First Plant, First Animal, and First Human. These subtle realms of potential power are the place that the magi pull from for the "great work" . The great work is the "graal" or the "alchemy" . All this means is that there are non physical realms of possible power and origin that we are not familiar with and then when we focus upon them we are endowed with our "source" . Its basically a form of meditation back to a "mindless mind" that will promote spiritual growth "filling of the chalice".

Its not that easy to talk about things that are not easy to talk about, but if you realize that the four worlds are demarcations of source , downsizing itself to a portion that can be contained, then you as the vessel can begin the work of heating the flame ( initiation) and in that initiaton you are able to start the great work.

And the reason its obscure is because
1. in order to reveal more you would have to be protected from dark forces that will "try and posess you by using your obsessions for vitality" you cant just jump into this work

2. We are using words to try and understand that which created words and language. So yeah a little awkward to just say NOTHING CREATED NOTHING AND NOTHING WAS CREATED,THEREFORE NOTHING EXISTS SO THIS MEANS NOTHING

IN GNOSIS
Tim

 

[Richard]

As to Mr. Waite's constant pomposities, he seems to think that the obscurer his style and the vaguer his phrases, the greater initiate he will appear...

And do for God's sake, Arthur, drop your eternal hinting, hinting, hinting, "Oh what an exalted grade I have, if you poor dull uninitiated people would only perceive it!"

GnosticTarotCards, you are obviously very learned about the subject, but I am not. I would be interested if you would explain your theories about the four worlds clearly, as you would have liked to have it explained to you during your novitiate.

Brilliant post, closrapexa, but.....

......And the reason its obscure is because
1. in order to reveal more you would have to be protected from dark forces that will "try and posess you by using your obsessions for vitality" you cant just jump into this work......

I.e., it is not safe to divulge to us any other than an obscure explanation. We have not advanced high enough in the secret degrees of a secret rite in French Masonry. Besides, as Jesus said, "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you." [Matthew 7:6] We are just not worthy. We might inadvertently help the "dark forces" and harm ourselves in the process. I.e., the Truth shall not make you free. Quite the opposite.

However, in the next verse it sez: "Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you." [Matthew 7:7] Could it be that we are knocking on the wrong door?