The Numerology of Tarot

[Zephyros]

Not sure if this is relevant to OP, but in his book "Tarot Beyond The Basics", Louis says

"…. These logical inconsistencies suggest that the attribution of the twenty-two tarot trump to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet is sheer nonsense, a flight into fancy much like the unreliable belie that the tarot is the ancient Egyptian Book of Thoth."

I find that remark somewhat inexact. No one claimed the Golden Dawn attributions are "correct" except for the people who worked them out (claiming divine inspiration or authority based on antiquity is par for the course among occultists). And it was added on after several hundred years of Tarot history, no doubt about that.

But it does work. It gives the cards a framework, a system of checks and balances. The RWS and later decks that made use of this system are very different animals from the historical decks. Every image in the RWS comes about as a result of very specific reasons. Whether intended or not, those occultists found parallels between Tarot and the Hebrew alphabet and constructed a system on that.

The comparison to the belief about Egypt is wrong, as that has been conclusively debunked, while there is nothing to debunk about the Hebrew attributions. There is only to use them (or not) and admit that the modern decks used are in fact based on GD doctrines. It isn't as though there was the RWS and them evil people came along and started meddling with the attributions. The Hebrew attributions may not have been part of Tarot from the start, but they were indeed part of the RWS and every consecutive clone, from the start.

 

[Zephyros]

Back to the OP, I suspect most of the serious occult research is carried on by the occult orders such as remaining GD orders and the OTO. But frankly, free style intuitive reading is in vogue now (another modern development, it is highly doubtful if this is the way people used to read pre-GD) and much less study is being done in that vein.

What I find very interesting is that even a cursory look at Pytagorean (sp?) definitions show a remarkable overlap between them and Kabbalistic number definitions. Not very surprising, since one is based on the other

But growing up in a Jewish environment, I had a problem wrapping my head around the whole imbalance of the sevens thing. I was raised to see seven as an important typological number, the number of the Sabbath, etc. I suppose an answer can be found if I try. I just haven't yet.

 

[tarotbear]

No one claimed the Golden Dawn attributions are "correct" except for the people who worked them out (claiming divine inspiration or authority based on antiquity is par for the course among occultists). And it was added on after several hundred years of Tarot history, no doubt about that.

As was stated in a TV show (of all places) "The deeper the [perceived] antiquity - the greater the authority."

 

[Zephyros]

As was stated in a TV show (of all places) "The deeper the [proclaimed] antiquity - the greater the authority."

It is fairly standard practice in these fields, so ubiquitous that it can, and should, be ignored. The only standard is the success of any given system, otherwise even occult orders take on the semblance of organised religion.

When I argue occult points it is important to keep in mind that I am not saying I am correct or that the attributions were divinely inspired, only that everything should be analyzed according to its proper context. If you're talking about the RWS, then its background and structure cannot be dismissed. Otherwise it is like looking in an English dictionary for the meaning of a Russian word, different languages.

But very often I see people doing exactly that, saying that all this Kabbalah stuff was added after the fact and then going back to their RWSs. It was, indeed, added later, but to the TdM, not RWS, that was constructed using kabbalah from the ground up.

 

[Barleywine]

Back to the OP, I suspect most of the serious occult research is carried on by the occult orders such as remaining GD orders and the OTO. But frankly, free style intuitive reading is in vogue now (another modern development, it is highly doubtful if this is the way people used to read pre-GD) and much less study is being done in that vein.

What I find very interesting is that even a cursory look at Pytagorean (sp?) definitions show a remarkable overlap between them and Kabbalistic number definitions. Not very surprising, since one is based on the other

But growing up in a Jewish environment, I had a problem wrapping my head around the whole imbalance of the sevens thing. I was raised to see seven as an important typological number, the number of the Sabbath, etc. I suppose an answer can be found if I try. I just haven't yet.

I've found that the study (which I undertook in parallel with starting to read the cards intuitively over four decades ago) was an invaluable aid to understanding the imagery. Well, to be honest, with the Thoth deck you kind of had to bone up on Crowley or you would be completely at sea.

Regarding the origins of the two systems, would I be correct in assuming that the kabbalistic one is far older than that from the Greek civilization? I understand it was originally an oral tradition, but the pictorial Tree of Life must have been added sometime later.

Fortunately, I have no religiously or mystically imposed preconceptions regarding holy numbers. I just know they exist and underlie some of the more exoteric meanings applied to what are essentially esoteric concepts. It's been ages since I actually looked at any of them, so I hardly remember what they were now. Seven is one of them.

 

[Zephyros]

I've found that the study (which I undertook in parallel with starting to read the cards intuitively over four decades ago) was an invaluable aid to understanding the imagery. Well, to be honest, with the Thoth deck you kind of had to bone up on Crowley or you would be completely at sea.

Quite right. For me it was the opposite. I read intuitively, or at least I thought I did, but Tarot never really "clicked" for me until I discovered the Thoth and it associated studies. Learning how the deck's "machinery" works behind the scenes gave me more understanding and appreciation, even awe, than I could ever have imagined it would.

Regarding the origins of the two systems, would I be correct in assuming that the kabbalistic one is far older than that from the Greek civilization? I understand it was originally an oral tradition, but the pictorial Tree of Life must have been added sometime later.

Depends on who you talk to. Traditionally Kabbalah is part of the Oral Law, given to Moses together with the Written Law at Sinai. Other traditions place its source at Eden (those kabbalists would seem to share modern occultist's penchant for claims of antiquity!). What's is known, however, is that the Merkabah dates from at least the 5th century BCE, and what we know of as "official" kabbalah dates from the 11-12th centuries CE.

Fortunately, I have no religiously or mystically imposed preconceptions regarding holy numbers. I just know they exist and underlie some of the more exoteric meanings applied to what are essentially esoteric concepts. It's been ages since I actually looked at any of them, so I hardly remember what they were now. Seven is one of them.

I like to think of it as "assumption of belief." By assumption I mean in the way you "assume a disguise," as in wearing it. When I'm working with kabbalah either theoretically or practically, I "assume a belief," something that allows for immersion, but also keeps one from becoming too devout.

 

[Barleywine]

Learning how the deck's "machinery" works behind the scenes gave me more understanding and appreciation, even awe, than I could ever have imagined it would.

Awe, to be sure!

What's is known, however, is that the Merkabah dates from at least the 5th century BCE, and what we know of as "official" kabbalah dates from the 11-12th centuries CE.

And Pythagoras lived from 570 BCE to 495 BCE. I guess that answers my question.

I like to think of it as "assumption of belief." By assumption I mean in the way you "assume a disguise," as in wearing it. When I'm working with kabbalah either theoretically or practically, I "assume a belief," something that allows for immersion, but also keeps one from becoming too devout.

Forgive me, but I had a perverse vision of a "hazmat" suit. I've never worked with exhaustive literal translations (although I do own Mather's Zohar translation from the Latin), only with extracts and extrapolations turned to their own ends by various writers (like the remarkable Sepher Yetzirah).

 

[Barleywine]

Here is an interesting site if you're looking for some background on the "occult" significance of numbers.

http://mysticalnumbers.com/

 

[foolMoon]

A bit of a "side bar" to the main topic, but still relevant. The numeration of the Hebrew letters is quite a bit different from that assigned by Tree of Life position; some run into the hundreds, which isn't very useful for my purpose, so I don't use them in practical terms unless gematria is revealing. I have an academic interest in the subject but not as a working model for reading the cards. The applicability of the numbers 1 through 9 to the minor arcana is my main focus.

There seem to be a few books wholly devoted to 22 Hebrew Letters and path working attributed to the major Arcana cards based on Quabalistic Foundation e.g. "Living the Qabalistic Tarot" by A. Jayanti, and "The RoyalRoad - A manual of Kabalistic Meditations on the Tarot" by S.A. Hoeller etc in my Tarot book collection.

 

[foolMoon]

The comparison to the belief about Egypt is wrong, as that has been conclusively debunked, while there is nothing to debunk about the Hebrew attributions. There is only to use them (or not) and admit that the modern decks used are in fact based on GD doctrines. It isn't as though there was the RWS and them evil people came along and started meddling with the attributions. The Hebrew attributions may not have been part of Tarot from the start, but they were indeed part of the RWS and every consecutive clone, from the start.

But isn't it what the Crowely Thoth Tarot is based upon? If you say that Egyptian foundation is debunked, then AC's Thoth Tarot would have to be also debunked?