The Numerology of Tarot

[Barleywine]

There seem to be a few books wholly devoted to 22 Hebrew Letters and path working attributed to the major Arcana cards based on Quabalistic Foundation e.g. "Living the Qabalistic Tarot" by A. Jayanti, and "The RoyalRoad - A manual of Kabalistic Meditations on the Tarot" by S.A. Hoeller etc in my Tarot book collection.

I have "The Shining Paths," by Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki, which is devoted to path-working. Paul Foster Case goes heavily into Hebrew letter attributions (along with loads of other symbolism), and spends a lot of time on path associations. I still spend time with his "Tarot Meditations." My point was I don't find the numerical values of the Hebrew letters revelatory when used in conjunction with tarot divination the way I do the Pythagorian and sephirotic number sequences. Shin is 300, Tav is 400, and so forth, and I'm not sure what I can do with that. I get more value by using gematria and numerological reduction. Perhaps more of a "brute force" approach, but it gets everything back on the same page. My goal is practical, not philosophical or mystical.

 

[foolMoon]

I have "The Shining Paths," by Dolores Ashcroft-Nowicki, which is devoted to path-working. Paul Foster Case goes heavily into Hebrew letter attributions (along with loads of other symbolism), and spends a lot of time on path associations. I still spend time with his "Tarot Meditations." My point was I don't find the numerical values of the Hebrew letters revelatory when used in conjunction with tarot divination the way I do the Pythagorian and sephirotic number sequences. Shin is 300, Tav is 400, and so forth, and I'm not sure what I can do with that. I get more value by using gematria and numerological reduction. Perhaps more of a "brute force" approach, but it gets everything back on the same page. My goal is practical, not philosophical or mystical.

Sure. I suppose everyone is entitled to one's own ways of working based on one's preference of method and philosophy, which suits and works best. I am still open minded about this issue.

 

[Richard]

I'm never sure about how to reduce the numbers. The most common way is by adding the digits of the Arabic numeral representation. For example, 19 (Sun) reduces to 10 = 1 + 9 (Wheel) which again reduces to 1 = 1 + 0 (Magician). This is basically "casting out nines." If you remove (subtract) 9 from 19, you are left with 10. Remove 9 again, and you are left with 1.

Another common reduction method is used with Roman numerals. For this you simply drop the X from the beginning of the numbers. For example, the Sun is XVIIII. Drop the X and you are left with VIIII (Hermit). Instead of casting out nines, this amounts to casting out tens. Removing 10 from 19 leaves you with 9. This is a very natural reduction method if you tend to count on your fingers. (Casting out nines when using only Ruman numerals is rather difficult without counting on your fingers or using an intermediate convdersion to Arabic notation.)

I rarely use numerology. As Barleywine mentioned, the numerical value of the Hebrew letters works fine for gematria, but seems only to have an indirect connection with Tarot cards, especially the letters beyond Yod (10), when they start counting by tens and later (after Qoph) by hundreds.

 

[Barleywine]

I rarely use numerology. As Barleywine mentioned, the numerical value of the Hebrew letters works fine for gematria, but seems only to have an indirect connection with Tarot cards, especially the letters beyond Yod (10), when they start counting by tens and later (after Qoph) by hundreds.

I've had some interesting times with it, to be sure. Especially when I was trying to get down to within the envelope bounded by the 22 Major Arcana. Does one stop at 19 or take it down to 10 and then 1? At first I just stopped as soon as I got within the envelope and used that Trump for my purposes. But then I began to compare all of the Trumps derived in this way (in the example, Sun, Wheel of Fortune and Magician/Magus) to see what, if any, parallels might be drawn between them. Sometimes I got relevant insights and blended the interpretations as appropriate, other times they were incompatible - as much as any two or three archetypes within the same chain of progressively ramifying ideas can be - and stayed with the highest numbered one. Still other times I would treat the resulting pair or triplet as a vignette to the side of the main interpretation. Fun stuff to play with.

 

[Tanga]

Way over my head ofcourse - but I'm fascinated by what you all have to say. Thankyou!

Don't tell the witches that jumped down my throat! They'll be writing him hate letters!

Hey - watch-out tarotbear - I'm a Witch (Wiccan). And I'd certainly never be jumping down your throat about these things.

Thanks for that book link Barleywine (Patrick Dunn's Lenormand and Tarot), as well as the numerology link - I shall possess a copy of that text soon. I'd love to be able to combine my Pagan Lenormand with Tarot.

Not sure if this is relevant to OP, but in his book "Tarot Beyond The Basics", Louis says

"…. These logical inconsistencies suggest that the attribution of the twenty-two tarot trump to the letters of the Hebrew alphabet is sheer nonsense, a flight into fancy much like the unreliable belief that the tarot is the ancient Egyptian Book of Thoth."

Well is it possible the very way in which we us Tarot today is a "flight of fancy" - if it might have originally been some kind of game?
And so what? Point is - is it useful for it's purpose.

I like to think of it as "assumption of belief." By assumption I mean in the way you "assume a disguise," as in wearing it. When I'm working with kabbalah either theoretically or practically, I "assume a belief," something that allows for immersion, but also keeps one from becoming too devout.

Sounds like Chaos Magick. Which I rather like the idea of.

 

[Zephyros]

But isn't it what the Crowely Thoth Tarot is based upon? If you say that Egyptian foundation is debunked, then AC's Thoth Tarot would have to be also debunked?

Sorry, I didn't see this. The Thoth does not hinge on traditional Egyptian theology, but rather a modified version of it. While the deck adapts Egyptian deities for its own purposes, it does not assert these had any original connection to Tarot.

 

[foolMoon]

Sorry, I didn't see this. The Thoth does not hinge on traditional Egyptian theology, but rather a modified version of it. While the deck adapts Egyptian deities for its own purposes, it does not assert these had any original connection to Tarot.

No probs closrapexa. Sorry for OT. Maybe now this is for the Thoth forum?

I wonder that, if that is the case, whether it is justified to call it "Thoth Tarot", because Thoth means the Ancient Egyptian God of Knowledge. AC's "Book of Thoth" EVEN has "Egyptian Tarot" as its subtitle on the front cover, which gives strong impression, Thoth Tarot is mainly based on the Ancient Egyptian Divinity System or Mysteries.

Should it not be called "Multi Origin Tarot" or something like that instead of Thoth Tarot?

 

[Tanga]

...I wonder that, if that is the case, whether it is justified to call it "Thoth Tarot", because Thoth means the Ancient Egyptian God of Knowledge. AC's "Book of Thoth" EVEN has "Egyptian Tarot" as its subtitle on the front cover, which gives strong impression, Thoth Tarot is mainly based on the Ancient Egyptian Divinity System or Mysteries.

Should it not be called "Multi Origin Tarot" or something like that instead of Thoth Tarot?

Huh. Wouldn't they ALL then have to be called "Multi Origin" ?? Lol.

 

[foolMoon]

Huh. Wouldn't they ALL then have to be called "Multi Origin" ?? Lol.

Most of them call themselves by creators' or origin of place name e.g. RWS, Morgan Greer, TdM
or systems or characteristics which they are heavily and mainly based on e.g. Aqua Tarot, Navigators Tarot, Celestial Tarot, Golden Dawn Tarot etc etc

 

[Tanga]

Most of them call themselves by creators' or origin of place name e.g. RWS, Morgan Greer, TdM
or systems or characteristics which they are heavily and mainly based on e.g. Aqua Tarot, Navigators Tarot, Celestial Tarot, Golden Dawn Tarot etc etc

Yes I know. But I repeat the question (it was rhetorical).
If an originator chooses a name that's their inspiration -
So what? (you can see that I'm not really a stickler for this sort of detail).