The worst sign for any planet

[ncefafn]

A discussion in another thread led me to question what the worst sign is for any given planet to be in. Not just the typical detriment/fall issue, but from your experiences in dealing with others, what's the worst sign placement for any given planet?

In the other thread, someone mentioned that Virgo isn't the worst place to have Mars, and I agree. Traditionally, it's said to be in its fall in Cancer and its detriment in Libra. But from my experience, the people who make me want to pull out my hair are those with, ahem, Mars in Pisces. They can't just come out and say what they want, it seems. I once dated a guy with Mars in Pisces and he drove me crazy, making me guess what he wanted to do, where he wanted to go, leaving a lot of little clues and hints instead of just saying, "Yes, I want to do that," or "No, I don't want that."

Anyone have their own experiences or thoughts to contribute?

 

[The Dreamer]

Well, I have mars in cancer and I still haven't figured out what my own deal is. I've heard it described various ways- (always that it's "in its fall" there, of course-) some say that it means a person who cannot fight; some say it means a particularly explosive temper. The way I've heard it described in which it most applied to me was "the person's energy goes into their emotions." That's about right. I don't want to fight, but the emotional energy builds up quite a bit. If I finally get to the "fighting words" point, I'm pretty much letting it all loose at that point. (Of course, I've also got mars in the third house. And mars square pluto. So those are also factors in that.) Another way I've heard cancer mars described is "like a fish trying to ride a bicycle." I'm definitely still figuring out my "martian" issues.

I've got venus in pisces (and 12th house), and don't find that to be a bed of roses. Don't know if it's the worst place to have it, though.

(But- what I've said has more to do with my own traits affecting my experiences in dealing with others, rather than how others' traits affect me, which is what you were asking for.
Regarding people who annoyingly won't say what they really want to do- I've found libras and those with libra ascendant to be annoyingly reticent about saying what they want, as you described there. But that's neither here nor there.)

I tend to think that the "worst" things that we see in others have as much to do with our own viewpoint and traits as with the other person. Some people are quite happy with people who won't say what they want. I prefer directness, myself.
People are what they are, though. You kind of have to take them or leave them. Or try to get them to change, which doesn't always work. Judging others' traits to be "the worst" kind of hinders having a relationship with them.

 

[Minderwiz]

Well it all depends what you mean by 'worst', from who's point of view, yours? the people with whom you interact?, and are these effects internalised or externalised?

If planets were only in signs then it might be a relatively easy question to answer but they are not, they are also in houses and they may or may not make aspects to other planets and sensitive points and it is a combination of all these that will go to make up the way that you (or anyone else) expresses the side of character signified by the planet.

Dignities and debilities are not measures of 'good' or 'bad', they are measures of strength or weakness. Admittedly a dignified Mars (in Aries, Scorpio or Capricorn) may be more the 'good soldier' than the 'terrorist' but even good soldiers can be responsible for awful events.

House positions give an indication of where or in what aspect of life you express the energies of the planet. Mars in Aries may be good for career (tenth) or for material possessions (second) but is it necessarily a good placement for partnerships? (seventh) or friends (eleventh)? Usually Astrologers reckon that a planet near an angle is strong but again, Mars at the Descendant or the IC may not be good in terms of relationships or home life (at least for the other people).

The sixth, eighth and twelfth houses are traditionally seen as weak placements, they are the cadent houses - they have been at the angle and are now passed it (in decline). Even for a modern Astrologer, these placements are not key areas of life, so the Energy of Mars in Aries may be wasted in the twelfth or sixth. These are not 'doing' houses they are more 'reflective' houses.

Aspects also modify planetry energy - imagine Mars in Aries trined by Jupiter in Sagittarius - that seems great at first sight but it might be too much of a good thing. No stopping to think, big ideas and a major offensive to get them - could anything be 'worse' than that? If Mars is in the tenth then we may have someone who just doesn't let anyone else stand in the way of his/her career.

One last point - Hitler had Venus in Taurus, in the Seventh, ruling a Libra Ascendant. One might argue that Hitler's need for the good things in life (Venus in Taurus) led him to assertively dispossess others (seventh) of their property by force (Mars). Hence the looting of museums and Art galleries, the stealing of private collections, all transported back to Berlin - here is a planet in dignity with possibly one of the worst outcomes in human history.

 

[ncefafn]

It was a stupid question. I'm sorry I asked.

 

[Minderwiz]

No it wasn't a stupid question - it was actually quite a good question.

Just because you weren't precise about what you meant when you phrased the question doesn't make it any less of a good question. Indeed it prompted me to think about what 'worst' meant, rather than a traditional Astrological approach of strong or weak.

Feel free to ask those sorts of questions - any question that makes people think and question their own views is well worth asking. Don't be sorry for asking it

 

[isthmus nekoi]

Oh no, it wasn't a stupid question at all and I too, find Mars in Pisces a difficult placement. Or any Mars-Neptune contact for that matter. Piscean/Neptune energy is very defuse (sp?), whereas Mars is very direct, striking towards a goal. Having said that, when coupled w/Piscean defusion, it takes the sting out, I suppose.

Sign may not be as difficult as aspects, I think. Tons of people have sun in Libra or Aquarius but it doesn't seem to have an overall hampering effect on their personalities. However, hard pluto-sun or saturn-sun people for example, you can be more specific about challenges in a natal chart.

Personally, I've found hard aspects from Pluto and Neptune to the moon to be particularly troublesome for people. Uran-moon can also be challenging, but Pluto or Neptune can really make a mess of things. If I see any hard Pluto/Neptune to moon, I usually zero in on that as a central conflict. As a rule of thumb Mother (moon) issues trump Father (sun) issues. One generally needs to feel secure and OK w/the world and yourself (moon comfort) before you can go out in the world and shine on your own (sun vitality).

 

[prudence]

so, what does this mean for someone who has pisces sun in 12th house, and mars is in aries in the 1st house and an ASC in pisces in 1st house? That pisces in the 1st house seems like a bad place for that poor fish to be...then there's that Leo moon in the 5th house!
Astrid

 

[Minderwiz]

Well without your chart I can't really go beyond the minimum. You prefer a more reflective, contemplative approach to life and indeed what transcends life. You have the capacity to act and assert yourself in needbe but you prefer not to. You don't really like acting on impulse or rushing into things but if pushed to react then you will.

If you want to post your natal details then I and others could go a little futher.

 

[prudence]

thanks Minderwiz,
should I do that here, in this thread or is the post from me a few days ago asking about my natal chart (the "care to trade astro info..." thread) enough info? (You sure did a pretty good job describing certain aspects of my character already!) I am with out a clue as far as astrology goes, and am not sure how much info you need for this question.
Thanks for the info you've been so kind to share.
Astrid

 

[paradoxx]

the worst: mercury in pisces. I woke up with a migrane and nausea today, mercury went into pisces.