Transgender decks!

[nexyjo]

i find it interesting that many of the responses here refer to decks that are "androgynous" or "genderless". i'm also trying to imagine what a transgender deck would look like, and how it would enhance or focus a deck differently.

unlike sexual orientation - gay, lesbian, bisexual - trans defines how one functions in the context of gender as it relates to the specific society in which one functions. it also may have to do with the sex of ones body, though that may not be a part of it. transgender covers a pretty wide spectrum of identities.

i wouldn't say that trans people are any more or less androgynous or genderless than individuals in the general population at large. but that aligns with my experience of how most people percieve the concept of trans, or lack thereof. of course, that's just my take on it. i'd say that there's as many flavors of transgender as there are transgender people.

the above link to the trans deck doesn't strike me as being so very trans focused. but then again, maybe i've spent way too much time in trans support groups to judge. it seems pretty normal to me. also, the deck seems to focus on transition - the process during which a trans person comes to know themselves as a gender different from the way they've been living previously. is that the only aspect of a trans person that differs from a non-trans person? would there be other aspects of transgender life, asfter transition that would be applicable to a tarot deck?

anyway, back to my original thought, what would a trans deck deck look like, and in what way might it influence the energy of a deck? would a trans deck transcend gender? mix gender influences? operate outside the context of gender? or something different? would there be certain cards that might reflect a transgender theme more than others? what cards would lend themselves toward a transgender energy, and which ones might not?

 

[Debra]

This is interesting. nexyjo, my reaction to the transgender deck was that it simply isn't very TAROT. It seemed more like the artist's documenting "the fool's journey"--but a non-tarot journey. Maybe I missed something?

The archetypes of tarot are pretty heavily "gendered," traditionally, which I think is why we (at least I) thought of "less gendered" images in response to Brammetje's original question. It's true that "transgendering" doesn't equate to transcending or denying gender.

 

[nexyjo]

i'd agree with your take on that transgender deck debra - it didn't seem very much like a tarot deck, at least compared to the tarot decks that i own. and that's why i asked what a trans tarot deck would look like, and in what way would it provide a different insight into the tarot.

i'd also agree that the tarot archetypes are heavily gendered - the emperor is a man and the empress is a woman, and so on. while there have been several decks that feature all female figures or all male figures, those didn't strike me as being transgendered either.

perhaps a transgender deck would simply reverse gender on those cards that have been traditionaly male or female?

it seems to me that the gay and woman-focused decks seem to work, in that they offer new perspectives into the tarot that haven't been explored previously. but for some reason, i just can't wrap my head around what a trans deck might do. perhaps break down gendered stereotypes within the tarot?

i would imagine that such a project would require some "outside the box" thinking, something that i didn't seem to find in the aforementioned trans deck. and that's not to say that the trans deck isn't good, but it is to say that it didn't work for me.

 

[Brammetje]

unlike sexual orientation - gay, lesbian, bisexual - trans defines how one functions in the context of gender as it relates to the specific society in which one functions. it also may have to do with the sex of ones body, though that may not be a part of it.

usually, it does. Because in a relationship the transgender boy or girl who were born in the opposite sex need their partners to consider them as the gender they truely are. Indeed, not only their partners, but also friends, family, people at work, neigbours etc etc. That is, partly, why many choose to transition. Because you can tell sociaty you are a girl, your friends, lovers, but when you continue to look like a guy, it does not really change anything.
It is also pretty hard, coz your friends lovers family might love you for something you are not, do not identify with, and most of the time even dislike. It is very hard when a lover tells you he or she likes you because you are a boy or girl, when in fact you are not. But reading your reply's gives me the feeling you are well aware of transgender difficulties, are you TG TS yourself?

transgender covers a pretty wide spectrum of identities.

Yes that is very true... I have not found one still that sorth of is like me. We are all so different...only we have the same difficulties/problems, and I do feel a strong connection to transgender people.

i wouldn't say that trans people are any more or less androgynous or genderless than individuals in the general population at large.

Many indeed are not, they are perhaps physically, but if they could they would change that.
There are transgender people though who consider themselves, both boy and girl, at the same time, or something else entirely...and they would lend themselves for cards like the Fool, for instance.

perhaps a transgender deck would simply reverse gender on those cards that have been traditionaly male or female?

I think that is a very interesting idea.. To me as a transgendered person this idea appeals to me the most! When you want to visualise this, most character will turn out to look very androgynous, but with the right attributes and symbols on every card, each character might still be very male or female in appearence.

But still it is quite difficult coz that does mean that the devil will be as a woman, or that the death card from now on wears lingerie?

Thanks for the nice reply's!

love,
Mina

 

[nexyjo]

But reading your reply's gives me the feeling you are well aware of transgender difficulties, are you TG TS yourself?

yes, i am. ts that is, at least according to the commonly understood definition of the word.

 

[LauraSeabrook]

There's this (I think) unpublished one:

http://server5.pictiger.com/albums/2269/a-trans-tarot-deck---final-versions/

Maybe you can find a way to make contact (if you want) by following some links around.

Actually, you will find the entire completed deck (and supporting photos and documents) shown at A Trans Tarot Deck page of my Queer Stuff comic. The deck, by the way is a about gender transition, rather than transgender. It's based on the spiritual (rather than magical) journey of the Major Arcana (ala Petrarch, et al), and would be a meditation deck rather than a divination one, if it were ever published as a proper deck.

 

[Cat*]

Laura, thank you for the link and all the extra information!

I find your deck a thought-provoking application of tarot concepts to the theme of gender transition, even though I don't see your take as the universal word on what tarot concept relates to what part of the transition experience (going on what I hear from my trans friends and experience as the queer partner of a transgender butch/trans guy). But my own disagreements with your deck partly ARE what makes it so interesting to me, and I certainly don't expect your project to represent the entire huge spectrum of trans experiences.

Anyhow, thank you for putting this deck out there! And welcome to Aeclectic!

 

[Richard]

Even in the good old RWS there is surprising amount of gender ambiguity. In fact, Waite says so in his PKT book (which nobody reads except oddballs like me).

 

[Shade]

There is the Nouveau Nouveau which has a male and female version of every Major Arcana.... one could almost imagine that both cards showed the same person but in masculine and feminine attire

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v493/necromancer151/preview2.jpg

http://tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=106031

 

[Alta]

Actually, you will find the entire completed deck (and supporting photos and documents) shown at A Trans Tarot Deck page of my Queer Stuff comic. The deck, by the way is a about gender transition, rather than transgender. It's based on the spiritual (rather than magical) journey of the Major Arcana (ala Petrarch, et al), and would be a meditation deck rather than a divination one, if it were ever published as a proper deck.

Thanks Laura! The thumbnails are interesting but did you realize that if you click on them that they won't enlarge to see well?

nexyjo doesn't come by any more but it seems to me that you made some good progress in an area not usually approached. Except, as has been commented, by rather androgynous figures.

I find that a lot of tarot decks based on anime are so androgynous that I literally could not say whether some figures are meant to be male or female.