What are the guiding lights to true will? (split from Thoth Deck the One and Only)

[yogiman]

There is also this interesting passage

Thanks to firemaid, and also to closrapexa and ravenest for their enthousiastic responses. (I feel a need to butter, because my post is not related to the thread title).

It's not so easy to sense whether something is your true will. For instance, when my head is lifted up she is the girl of my dreams, but when my head is drooped down I am not so sure anymore. And it can also be problemetic. It is not unlikely at all that Nelson Mandela was doing his true will before he was incarcerated for 27 years.

Divination artefacts, particularly tarot and i ching, will be important tools in guiding you. And it seems to me that from a thelemite perspective when you are doing hatha yoga, or some other exercise/ritual prescribed by Crowley there is a high probability you are doing your true will. Strangely, in his 8 lectures on yoga, he is not mentioning the 5 yamas as if they are fixtures that stand in the way of doing our true will in a universe that requires constant adapting.

from the wikipedia

Ahimsa (अहिंसा): non-violence
Satya (सत्य): benevolent truth, absence of falsehood
Asteya (अस्तेय): non-stealing
Brahmacharya (ब्रह्मचर्य): spiritual advancement by education and training. Some traditions associate Brahmacharya with celibacy.
Aparigraha (अपरिग्रह): non-appropriation, absence of avarice

I don't see the principal difference between hatha yoga positions and the 5 yamas, in the sense that the yamas represent as it were mental positions, which make our mind healthy, like yoga makes our body healthy. The only downside could be that you are blindly obeying a set of rules, but we do that in anyway:

from the BoT, p.77

At his feet, couchant, is the Lamb and Flag, to confirm this attribution on the lower plane; for the ram, by nature, is a wild and courageous animal, lonely in lonely places, whereas when tamed and made to lie down in green pastures, nothing is left but the docile, cowardly, gregarious and succulent beast. This is the theory of government.

Maybe it is a good idea to fight fire (conditioning) with fire (yamas) in order not to fall prey to the wrong forces of the subconscious.

Thelema arose about a century ago, and there will have been lots of people in the meantime who have been dedicated practitioners for decades. Have they all been successful, or is it wise to add some wisdom at hindsight?

 

[Grigori]

Moderator note

Hi folks,

I've split this conversation off from the thread below, so this different topic can be discussed without impacting the other topic. http://www.tarotforum.net/showthread.php?t=207162

Many thanks,
Grigori

 

[yogiman]

eye wink

It is not unlikely at all that Nelson Mandela was doing his true will before he was incarcerated for 27 years.

It is not unlikely that Thelema is especially suited to northamericans and europeans for the next decades at least.

 

[Grigori]

It is not unlikely that Thelema is especially suited to northamericans and europeans for the next decades at least.

I think this would depend on how you define Thelema, but is probably generally accurate. The western magical tradition seems definitely oriented to European values, qabalah is often referred to as the zen if the west. I think Thelemic ideals are probably represented in more cultures, but Thelema as an institution or particular lineage or sect would be western dominated. I think also the cultures with stronger Protestant heritage are more likely to be interested also.

 

[ravenest]

Tarot is a 'Western Tradition' after all.

It seems as if the 'spiritual' traditions of the east came to the west to create a new eclecticism and Thoth is also a representation of that. So it at least appeals to the westerner who is interested in the eastern knowledge as well as the western tradition (and how they interface).

I am not clear about how this relates to the thread title though unless I read between the lines and assume that ;

Divination can assist one to find their True will ... then it goes into yoga ... and then seems to ask if it is wise to access others failure and success (if they used divination ?? )

To the one question (if I read it right) ... yes, I think it is important to observe others successes and failures ... not as a judgement on them but as a way of examining any processes they may or may have not used. The importance though is how all that SPECIFICALLY applies to oneself and ones situation and time.

So an awareness and understanding about one's self, situation and time are an important factor ... otherwise it is time directed away from one's own development.

 

[Zephyros]

For me it goes to the world of metaphor a tradition borrows from in order to explain ideas. Myth and storytelling are inherent parts of any culture, they are the way we explain our values, even to this day. The Bible, western astrological figures, Kabbalah and other things serve as important anchor points. Since they come from similar areas and traditions, the different Western disciplines go well together. It seems even Aiwass understood this, explaining the Law to Crowley through the use of Tarot symbolism, knowing that would be a reference point for him.

This is where the New Age movement errs, I think, in trying to present cornucopia of influences, many of which require context and perhaps even upbringing to understand fully. The result is getting a little bit of everything, but ultimately nothing. One of the best examples for this is Karma which, misunderstood in the West, is seen as judgment for one's sins, another name for a wrathful God and is yet another source of paranoia and fear.

Christianity, for example, has whole cultures and contexts to back it up, and has greatly influenced society in the way that ideas are conveyed. Superman, Batman, Little Red Riding Hood and Cinderella are all Christ figures, and serve to convey Christian values very well. Perhaps in time the idea of sacrifice will be less fashionable, and Thelema will have the cultural and mythical context. Maybe this would make for boring stories ("once upon a time, there was a girl who did her True Will and found no conflict anywhere, since everyone else did, too. The End"), but we'll talk again in a thousand years.

Dion Fortune explains this idea very, very well, in the Mystical Qabala (sp?), although when reading her one should try and disregard the racism.

 

[Zephyros]

Once upon a time, in a faraway land, there lived a girl. Everybody called her Red Riding Hood, as since attaining K&C, she understood her True Will included wearing that red hood, so that in time everyone forgot her own name, but called her by her "will" name. One day, Red Riding Hood's mother told her that her grandmother, being ill, needed a little help if she was to carry out her own Will to the best of her ability, so that if it wouldn't hurt her own plans to carry out her Will that afternoon, would Red Riding Hood take some food to her?

Red Riding Hood saw the wisdom in her mother's words, and set off through the woods, thankful that she didn't believe in the old Aeon sexual fears provoked by such an environment. On the way, Riding Hood encountered a wolf, who exclaimed as soon as he saw her "93/93! I know that if I eat you, my own orbit will suffer by my impinging on your own ability to carry out your Will! I will help you on your way, and so come ever closer to achieving the perfection of my Will!"

Red Riding Hood returned the wolf's salutations, and the two continued on their way to Grandmother's house. Once there, they said the adorations, laughed and enjoyed their freedom and their places as important elements in the universe. THE END

 

[yogiman]

I am not clear about how this relates to the thread title though unless I read between the lines and assume that ;

A better title would be: what are the guiding lights to true will. But I like to seduce all red riding hoods present at Aeclectica to view this thread.

I know that if I eat you, my own orbit will suffer by my impinging on your own ability to carry out your Will! I will help you on your way, and so come ever closer to achieving the perfection of my Will!"

The wolf has become a whimp? Or has he become a buddhist? There is no beast, no lust anymore?

 

[ravenest]

Once upon a time, in a faraway land, there lived a girl. Everybody called her Red Riding Hood, as since attaining K&C, she understood her True Will included wearing that red hood, so that in time everyone forgot her own name, but called her by her "will" name. One day, Red Riding Hood's mother told her that her grandmother, being ill, needed a little help if she was to carry out her own Will to the best of her ability, so that if it wouldn't hurt her own plans to carry out her Will that afternoon, would Red Riding Hood take some food to her?

Red Riding Hood saw the wisdom in her mother's words, and set off through the woods, thankful that she didn't believe in the old Aeon sexual fears provoked by such an environment. On the way, Riding Hood encountered a wolf, who exclaimed as soon as he saw her "93/93! I know that if I eat you, my own orbit will suffer by my impinging on your own ability to carry out your Will! I will help you on your way, and so come ever closer to achieving the perfection of my Will!"

Red Riding Hood returned the wolf's salutations, and the two continued on their way to Grandmother's house. Once there, they said the adorations, laughed and enjoyed their freedom and their places as important elements in the universe. THE END

VERY good except you left out the required Thelemic bestiality ... far too unsensational ... so I see what you mean .

 

[ravenest]

A better title would be: what are the guiding lights to true will. But I like to seduce all red riding hoods present at Aeclectica to view this thread.

I could answer the first part there but you have totally obscured your (core ? ) question by the second statement and made the whole issue rather confusing as to what you are asking ... as I pointed out in my post and in regard to that you haven't cleared anything up that I asked you so .... <shrug>

The wolf has become a whimp? Or has he become a buddhist? There is no beast, no lust anymore?

Ummmm ... C. said it would be boring if .... oh, it doesn't matter