What are the guiding lights to true will? (split from Thoth Deck the One and Only)

ravenest

From the BoT

“ In one sense, then, her general reputation will be of bewildering inconsistency. It is rather like a lottery wheel from which the extraction of any number does not predict or influence the result of any subsequent operation.”

“There’s not a planet in the firmament
But in his motion like an angel sings,
Still quiring to the young-eyed cherubim;
But while this muddy vesture of decay
Doth wrap us round, our nature cannot hear it.”
 

yogiman

http://kittycats.biz/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/09/KITTY-CAT-LESS-IS-MORE_003.jpg

The opposing camps regarding this topic consist of scholars who have a political agenda and those who seem to be unprejudiced. Period.

Suppose the sanskrit language has a predecessor and was not the original language of india, does that make sanskrit less sacred? Thelemites believe that hebrew is a sacred language, but hebrew is a branch of the semitic family of languages, and is also not original.

The first tarot deck known was for the purpose of game play, and consisted of 16 picture cards with images of the Greek gods and suits depicting four kinds of birds. So there was an evolution of the picture cards from play, to divination, to path working. Ofcourse I would not be able to think this out on my own. Crowley says (p.13 BoT):" One might take, by way of an analogy, the game of chess. Chess has developed from very simple beginnings. It was a mimic battle for tired warriors; but the subtleties of the modern game-which have now, thanks to Richard Reti, gone quite beyond calculation into the world of aesthetic creation-were latent in the original design. The originators of the game were "building better than they knew" It is of course possible to argue that these subtleties have arisen in the course of the development of the game; and indeed it is quite clear, historically, that the early players whose games are on record had no conscious conception of anything beyond a variety of rather crude and elementary stratagems. It is quite possible to argue that the game of chess is merely one of a number of games which has developed while other games died out, because of some accident. One can argue that it is merely by chance that modern chess was latent in the original game."

Now I would like to pose the question whether Crowley regarded hebrew as being superior to sanskrit because of it's numerology.

PS This post doesn't imply that you claim something else. It's just meant to satisfy my curiosity about two linguistic guiding lights.:joke:
 

ravenest

Oh sure ... I will walk down another side alley with you (off another side alley, and off another side alley and off a road that you were lost on in the first place) ... lets see where it goes ... I mean its your thread ... but maybe you should split off the subject of this split subject which was a split in the first place - to a new thread?

Magick and tarot do require some focus and concentration, you do realise?

Or maybe just change the thread title - again. :laugh:


First up - the relevance of this link ??? I would suggest, in this situation the following link my may be more illuminating to you;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YPcRoPFnZo
The opposing camps regarding this topic consist of scholars who have a political agenda and those who seem to be unprejudiced. Period.
I would say the opposing camps are scholars and those that have a prejudiced political outlook who are not academically qualified. The evidence is plain to see in the research and the info and links I posted … go to Wiki and read ‘Out of India’ theory yourself.
Suppose the sanskrit language has a predecessor and was not the original language of india, does that make sanskrit less sacred? Thelemites believe that hebrew is a sacred language, but hebrew is a branch of the semitic family of languages, and is also not original.
Where did anyone claim that Sanskrit is less sacred? Thelemites are not the only ones that think Hebrew is ‘sacred’. What makes you think a language has to be ‘original’ to be ‘sacred’ ?

You are doing it again; making up meanings you attribute to other people and then wanting to debate them when they originated in your own mind in the first place.
The first tarot deck known was for the purpose of game play, and consisted of 16 picture cards with images of the Greek gods and suits depicting four kinds of birds. So there was an evolution of the picture cards from play, to divination, to path working. Ofcourse I would not be able to think this out on my own. Crowley says (p.13 BoT):" One might take, by way of an analogy, the game of chess. Chess has developed from very simple beginnings. It was a mimic battle for tired warriors; but the subtleties of the modern game-which have now, thanks to Richard Reti, gone quite beyond calculation into the world of aesthetic creation-were latent in the original design. The originators of the game were "building better than they knew" It is of course possible to argue that these subtleties have arisen in the course of the development of the game; and indeed it is quite clear, historically, that the early players whose games are on record had no conscious conception of anything beyond a variety of rather crude and elementary stratagems. It is quite possible to argue that the game of chess is merely one of a number of games which has developed while other games died out, because of some accident. One can argue that it is merely by chance that modern chess was latent in the original game."

Are we on a different subject again already ?
Now I would like to pose the question whether Crowley regarded hebrew as being superior to sanskrit because of it's numerology.

Now back to this subject … or is the above supposed to demonstrate some process in the development of language ???

Where does Crowley indicate that Hebrew is superior to Sanskrit? I must have missed that. Please supply the reference. I have nothing to do with numerology, IMO it is a crappy New Age manifestation of Gematria, re-incarnated and bought up by hippy parents.

I assumed, in my ignorance, that Sanskrit has a numerative system associated with letters and words ???

Here is the dope on it - Gematria 101 ; Once upon a time Hebrew showed numbers with letters … you wanted to indicate 1 you didn’t have a 1 so you wrote an aleph. And so on … that’s it.
PS This post doesn't imply that you claim something else. It's just meant to satisfy my curiosity about two linguistic guiding lights.:joke:
I have no idea what this post is about actually, nor do I get your joke about two linguistic guiding lights.

If THAT is what this post is actually about how about rephrasing the question briefly and succinctly and then you might get a better answer ?
 

Zephyros

In defense of Hebrew, it would probably have been just as exotic as Sanskrit for the original GD, and there is no reason to assume that were they to see usefulness in everything that goes with Sanskrit they wouldn't have used it. On the contrary, it is not logical not to assume that. However, by chance or by the intervention of the Secret Chiefs, the numeric structure of Tarot appeared to correlate to the structure of the Tree of Life. That's what happened and that's why we have the GD system today.

Can one find fault with someone for choosing to concentrate on one thing and not another? If Tolstoy wrote Anna Karenina, should we find fault with him for not including all the girls in Russia in the novel? Me, I would argue Hebrew is "more sacred" that Sanskrit, but only because it is certain circles, certain usages and certain disciplines are based on it.

Simply speaking, you have to start from somewhere.

The question reminds me of a joke about Jewish mothers that give you two shirts for your birthday. When you wear one, they ask you why you didn't like the other one. There's just no winning.
 

yogiman

You can't read:
PS This post doesn't imply that you claim something else.


go to Wiki and read ‘Out of India’ theory yourself.
Starting with:
"This article may lend undue weight to certain ideas, incidents, controversies or matters relative to the article subject as a whole. Please help to create a more balanced presentation. Discuss and resolve this issue before removing this message. (August 2013)"




or is the above supposed to demonstrate some process in the development of language ???
:lightbulb
 

ravenest

Starting with:
"This article may lend undue weight to certain ideas, incidents, controversies or matters relative to the article subject as a whole. Please help to create a more balanced presentation. Discuss and resolve this issue before removing this message. (August 2013)"

Ummm ... yeah ... read BEYOND that bit ... keep going to the end ... it isn't a long article.

Interesting to note that since August 2013 the page has been modified and fine tuned to its present state ... thanks for brining that to my attention ... I guess, within that time the Indian Nationalists Movement hasn't come up with any more 'proof' to add to the article ?


Have you been able to formulate your question as yet?

It seems to be regarding the significance of Hebrew in the Thoth deck?

If so Closrapexa has answered it quiet well.

Maybe you could transpose the Sanskrit and the meaning of the Sanskrit letters (in relation to the meaning of the Major cards and the Hebrew letters) and work out a way of attributing Sanskrit to the Tarot.

Post the results here when finished .... they might be interesting.

I am not attached to Hebrew personally ... I would like to examine Sanskrit attributions ... it might be interesting and offer new insights.
 

Zephyros

I am not attached to Hebrew personally ... I would like to examine Sanskrit attributions ... it might be interesting and offer new insights.[/QUOTE]

Attributions of course wouldn't help you, if the overall structure of the deck is fit to a certain system. There are many Eastern-themed decks, but most stay within the boundaries of a theme while sticking to the same RWS atmosphere (that damn boat is always there!).

I'm not an expert, but there are certain hiccups in the GD having to do with inconsistencies and incompatibilities between different influences used. This becomes a problem only if one expects complete consistency, which I don't really. For example, while studying the Gunas I was having great trouble, because I was trying a bit forcefully to see them solely through the eyes of the three basic Western elements. Once I gave that up and looked at them objectively, it became a lot easier.
 

ravenest

Compare the Rite of Jupiter, first part and the interaction with the 4 main characters, and
“The World deluded by these Three Gunas does not know Me: Who is beyond these Gunas and imperishable.” (Vedas)

I think the eastern teaching can transform to the western method quiet well. I am still looking forward to Yogiman’s attribution of Sanskrit to Tarot.
 

yogiman

As far as me concerns it is becoming psychoanalytical here. I like to expound on this newly arisen topic, but as a matter of fact this is so fundamental that it deserves a new thread. Maybe you get more than you were looking forward to.
 

ravenest

As far as me concerns it is becoming psychoanalytical here.

What? After all that psychoanalytical stuff previously that you continued through but as soon as the Gunas are mentioned the thread becomes psychoanalytical ?

It is a little hard to get to the OP title without a little psychoanalytical ... actually that could be the crux of it ??? IN any case , that was never the intention of this thread was it?

I like to expound on this newly arisen topic, but as a matter of fact this is so fundamental that it deserves a new thread.

ANOTHER split ??? Okay ... lets hope it doesn't get toooo fundamentalist.

Maybe you get more than you were looking forward to.

Ohhh ... don't you worry about that ... I have a BIG capacity ;)