what one thoth card would you...

[gregory]

You don't get my point - but that's OK too.

We do NOT all do it ALL THE TIME. We can actually just look at an image, the end. I just took a few out quite deliberately. Pretty cats. Also a few ads clearly INTENDED to make me react subconsciously (cue Vance Packard, for those old enough). Nada.

 

[Oink]

My personal anecdote regarding the Thoth deck and the Aeon card:
When I got my first copy of the deck at 16 years old, I didn't have any tarot experience at all and managed to miss the concept of tarot books entirely. I bought two decks from the store's rather limited selection, chosen by the pictures on the front of the boxes.

The Thoth went straight back in the drawer (not to resurface for 10+ years) based on my reactions to two cards: the Fool, who I thought looked like a creepy methed-out leprechaun, and the Aeon, who I thought looked like a very femme but ditzy hermaphrodite with an 80's side ponytail chewing on her fingernail. To say that the deck didn't speak to me at that point would have been a massive understatement.

 

[gregory]

My personal anecdote regarding the Thoth deck and the Aeon card:
When I got my first copy of the deck at 16 years old, I didn't have any tarot experience at all and managed to miss the concept of tarot books entirely. I bought two decks from the store's rather limited selection, chosen by the pictures on the front of the boxes.

The Thoth went straight back in the drawer (not to resurface for 10+ years) based on my reactions to two cards: the Fool, who I thought looked like a creepy methed-out leprechaun, and the Aeon, who I thought looked like a very femme but ditzy hermaphrodite with an 80's side ponytail chewing on her fingernail. To say that the deck didn't speak to me at that point would have been a massive understatement.

I love that ! Thanks ! No hint of the birth thing ???

 

[Oink]

I love that ! Thanks ! No hint of the birth thing ???

It's not that it's so difficult to pick up on the womb imagery with the little fetuses at the bottom... It's more that, at 16 and at absolute zero in terms of tarot experience, I didn't really even have a concept of what I was even looking AT.

I had no concept of "tarot trumps as archetypes", and the only thing I had to compare it to was a RWS deck. Looking at the RWS deck, I saw mostly figures I thought I understood - humans, angels, devil etc. - front and center in each card. Even though I know now that the figure on the World card in the RWS is supposed to be a hermaphrodite, the bits that would clue me in on that are covered so I didn't pick up on stuff like that to find it confusing.

Looking at the Aeon card, the part that stuck out to me was the central figure (comparing it to the visual composition of the RWS I assumed it was the important part), and (likely because I was 16) I got really hung up on her hairdo. For whatever reason I found the side ponytail more puzzling than the penis, and it was enough to distract me completely from anything else that might going on there.

 

[gregory]

Well that's where I reckon the OP's people will be coming from, see.

absolute zero in terms of tarot experience, I didn't really even have a concept of what I was even looking AT.

 

[GoldenWolf]

I agree with Aeon about people picking up the meaning of the cards even when they previously know nothing of Tarot. I prefer face-to-face readings because I think that having a querant look at the card images that are laid out allows them to experience the cards in a more direct way than me reading and interpreting them through my filter of experience and associations which may or may not resonate with them. Sometimes they can articulate the thoughts and impressions that come up. Sometimes not especially if they are a "feeling" type of person. Thay may have that experience yet not be able to express it to someone else very well. I imagine that process can continue beyond the actual reading.

There's a reason that Tarot is symbolic. It speaks to our subconscious and can cleverly bypass the censor of the conscious mind that can smother a truth to death with over-rationalization and well meaning excuses. Otherwise, we could all just use decks with affirmations and keywords only and find it as satisfying as tarot

 

[gregory]

We could. But Lokismile just wants to show cards from a deck he - as a tarot reader - loves, to some people with no particular interest in tarot. Whole different ballgame there. Reading of any kind is not even marginally involved - yet at least.

 

[Zephyros]

If I may mediate, although I agree with gregory that the actual content of the pictures is immaterial, as long as they look pretty, I have read Aeon say in the past that the Thoth deck does speak for itself as an independent entity. I think that the root of this discussion is whether Tarot evokes feelings and associations, whether or not it is in the context of "Tarot" at all.

I think it does, even laymen can understand images and what they are meant to evoke, if they just look. That, after all, is the whole point of art in general. If art did not evoke anything, it would not exist, or would not be art. Of course, the question of "what is art" is too big to be discussed here, but I think we all agree on the basic premise that the Thoth is composed of art. It is also a tool similar to a fork or hammer, but it the root of it, is pictures painted on paper. Even a fork or hammer evoke certain associations; Neptune's trident, Thor's hammer. A Tarot deck does so much more, and much more purposefully.

One may as well ask in an art gallery if the pictures are meant to be viewed only by art experts or laymen. Unfortunately, the state of the art world today is in a large part the former, but the Thoth belongs to the older generation of the latter, and the emotional connections are readily made, as in, for example, the RWS.

However, I still think the OP asked a very simple question which, if differently worded meant "which cards do you think are the prettiest."

 

[GoldenWolf]

I understand that he wants to show a single card to non-Tarot readers so that they can better understand his interest in the Thoth deck. He's asking which one should it be. Many people are picking what they regard as the most visually pleasing so that it can be admired as art. That certainly is one way to go on this issue. In contrast, Aeon418 and some others picked the Aeon card because they feel that it conveys the essence of the Thoth deck and Crowley's teachings. He thinks that can be conveyed to someone visually without any prior knowledge of or background in tarot, Thelema, or Crowley. Based on my experiences with Tarot, I agree with Aeon418. i think that can happen on a subconscious level if not consciously.

Either approach has risks. Show them the nice, pretty card(s) and they may be dismayed at the rest of the deck later on. Show them the Aeon and maybe they can't get it on a leval that makes sense to them or that they can articulate. Personally, I would pick the Lovers which is to me, both visually appealing and chock full of multi-layered alchemical and occult symbols for their subconscious mind to mull over. Plus the reconciliation of opposites is one of my favorite concepts in this deck.

 

[gregory]

I want to hear from Lokismile.