Illustrated Pips VS Non-Illustrated

[Sophie]

If you approach it intuitively and don't try too hard to do it in a fixed "right" way, you might surprise yourself, missycab!

There is, of course, no obligation to like Marseille decks or any decks with non-scenic pips (or any deck, period). But I do encourage people at least to give it a try for a while, because for many, it is lack of confidence and the idea that they must have an elaborate system in place before they can even attempt to read that blocks them and hampers the free flow of their imagination and intuition. Having seen someone totally new to Marseille who thought she'd never be able to read with it make a great job of a throw, I know it can be done by anyone with a gift for reading tarot

 

[le pendu]

If you approach it intuitively and don't try too hard to do it in a fixed "right" way, you might surprise yourself, missycab!

There is, of course, no obligation to like Marseille decks or any decks with non-scenic pips (or any deck, period). But I do encourage people at least to give it a try for a while, because for many, it is lack of confidence and the idea that they must have an elaborate system in place before they can even attempt to read that blocks them and hampers the free flow of their imagination and intuition. Having seen someone totally new to Marseille who thought she'd never be able to read with it make a great job of a throw, I know it can be done by anyone with a gift for reading tarot

You know.. that's so funny.

When I think of the TdM, I think of it being the deck of "the people". It's similar to how I think of people who read "playing cards". Tarot is playing cards too. It's your imagination seeing patterns in the symbols and communicating with your intuition. I don't know.. it feels folksy to me.

 

[HiddenLight]

I didn't think I'd be able to read non-illustrated pips. I've had the Dragon Tarot (by Nigel Suckling) for a while, and I've always had trouble reading the pips in that deck. But then just recently (less than a week ago!), I got the 1JJ Swiss, and it's already given me some amazing readings, so anything's possible. (I do find myself using the book frequently, however.)

 

[three.sword.fool]

I ended the ODW believing that it validated my preference for non-scenic pips, but I later realized that the RWS images had actually sunk into my psyche during those four months. My tarot perception has been permanently enhanced because of it...and now I can read with both types of pips!

Thats wonderful!
I haven't had the chance to study/play with my cards lately, too busy, but I'm looking forward to picking them up again I'm determined to improve

 

[missycab]

I also got recently the Thoth. It has pips, and although I haven't been able to read with it yet (lack of time... besides I'd like to read a bit more about the symbology before reading with it), I feel "attracted" to it. I really REALLY like it. Perhaps it has to do with finding "your" deck...

Thanks Fudugazi for the advice!

 

[Teheuti]

People in the 17th or 18th centuries who used the tarot for divination wouldn't have used a suit+number system. They would probably have used simple fortune-telling type meanings, perhaps similar to Etteilla's. . . . My point is that all methods of assigning meaning to Marseille pips are equally arbitrary, and there isn't one method which is better or truer than any other -- other than, of course, that method which proves most useful to each individual reader.

Lee - I agree that there can be, and often is, an arbitrariness to Marseille-style meanings - especially Etteilla's. However, I don't think that's necessarily true for earlier divinatory experience with the Tarot and playing cards. We have plenty of evidence of people assuming classical symbolic associations for the four suits - Cups = 'sociability, love and drunkenness,' for instance. Also, there are plenty of early references to playing cards involving the Biblical and Pythagorean significance of number. I can't look these all up right now - but Renaissance people were well-educated in the significance of the numbers 1 thru 10, and the classical divisions of experience into four categories. Most suit/number systems pay at least some attention to these classical ones.

Mary

 

[Lee]

I knew that people in the Renaissance were well-versed in number symbolism, but I haven't seen any suggestion that they applied it to reading with cards. I'd love to see some evidence of that -- I would be delighted to be proven wrong!

-- Lee

 

[Teheuti]

I knew that people in the Renaissance were well-versed in number symbolism, but I haven't seen any suggestion that they applied it to reading with cards.

Not to *reading* with cards, but there is a document in which a soldier (I believe) argued with a priest who said that cards were the work of the Devil, that, rather, they were a 'book' that reminded him of spiritual teachings. He then went through several of the cards indicating what they symbolized as spiritual reminders, including something like an Ace = one belief, etc. Unfortunately I can't find the reference right now.

I believe Paul Marteau draws from classical meanings of numbers in his interpretation of the Marseille tarot. Also, John Osoposos' Pythagorean Tarot book and website is one of the best explanations of how Pythagorean number symbolism can be used.

Of course, anyone today can make a list of the medieval and Renaissance symbolic meanings of numbers and use these as their core meanings, rather than following the divinatory card meanings of Etteilla. For suit meanings, one could always go with the 1551 book by Innocentio Ringhieri _Cento Giuochi liberali dt d'ingegno_ and the “Magnificent Game of the King" in which the suit signs represented moral virtues: cups = temperance, columns = strength, swords = justice, and mirrors = prudence.

Mary

 

[Teheuti]

I just found the reference - know as "Cards Spiritualized; or, the Soldier's Almanac, Bible and Prayer Book". It's not as old as I thought, at least in this version:

http://www.newtscards.com/history_biblestory.asp

Mary

 

[jmd]

Thanks Teheuti - I remember that circulated email, and thought it even newer than claimed for on that site!

In any case, the story is something that could have been circulated much earlier, and even if not, shows how one may reflect and imbue with depth of meaning cards.