Krampus and the Cary Sheet

[baba-prague]

I've been searching from weeks now, and still can't find ANY image of the devil with a basket on his back except for the Cary-Sheet and Krampus.

Anyone have any suggestions or ideas of where to look?

It's driving me kind of crazy.

Any help greatly appreciated.

best,
robert

I'll look out for this here. Certainly "our" Czech Krampus carries a sack over this shoulder more often than a basket. But he can also pull a cart that naughty children are put into. I'll see if there are local depictions that show a basket. In general I'd say that people are quite creative when they show (or dress up to represent) Krampus, so there is quite a range of depictions.

 

[kwaw]

I too have been looking for Krampus like devils since we first discussed them in another thread and with no luck...but still looking and if I ever find anything I will post it here.

Here is an example of a devil figure holding a child, but no basket, but the inscription perhaps provides a clue to what such is intended to represent.

Above the figure is an inscription Mors Aeterna, death eternal. It is a detail from a woodcut in Anteros, sive Tractatus contra amorem by Battista Fregoso, produced in Ferrara and printed in Milan by Leonardus Pachel in 1496, and is part of the Rosenwald Collection. Also attached is the complete woodcut.

Kwaw

 

[Moonbow]

I found this site robert, although I'm not sure that more 20th century postcards of Krampus will help... but they're interesting:

http://www.xanga.com/KRAMPUS

 

[Lady Mary]

St. Nikolaus & Krampus banned!

Yesterday I read that St. Nikolaus is no longer allowed to visit children in kindergarten belonging to the City of Vienna. A big break of tradition. So on the 6th of December the little ones will have to do without this figure (even though you can bet all your money that they'll still get little bags with sweets). I think this is all Krampus fault - because St. Nikolaus is a good man - only Krampus is to fear (because the story says that he punishes the bad children). Not that a single kindergarten-child ever got punished by Krampus - in fact he was banned from kindergarten and schools many years ago - but still his influence must be so big that the authorities decided now to also ban St. Nikolaus.

 

[northsea]

le pendu, the Krampus postcards on your links remind me of the 1JJ Swiss Devil, sans basket or bag on back, but with Krampus-like horns and pitchfork, tormenting a young girl ... and from Krampus's Alps region.

http://www.tarotpassages.com/1jj15.jpg

 

[le pendu]

France 1407!

I have found an image similar to the Cary Sheet Devil, (or at least he has the basket), in a book that is part of a series on manuscripts published by the British Library. Here is the image online:
http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary-store/Components/40/4070_2.jpg

I've scanned a closeup from the book:

This book:
http://www.amazon.com/Medieval-Church-Manuscripts-Justin-Clegg/dp/0712347844

More details from this page:
http://www.imagesonline.bl.uk/britishlibrary/controller/textsearch?text=29433&&idx=1&startid=2020

Title of Work: Book of Hours
Illustrator: Master of the Brussels Initials
Production: France (Paris), circa 1407
Description: (Whole folio) A scene in Hell; historiated initial and decorated border with foliage, figures and birds. From the Penitential Psalms and Litany.

So that's interesting, it seems to me we can safely say the "basket" was known in France at least 50-200 years before the Cary Sheet.

Can we find him anywhere else?

 

[firemaiden]

WOW!!!! That's really gorgeous Le Pendu. (Does it give one point up for the French Origin Theory??)

 

[baba-prague]

I have one!

This is from a mosaic beside what was the main door of Prague's St Vitus Cathedral (it's now a side door and not always in use). I just love the demon leaning right into the coffin - and presumably hauling some poor soul out.

Interestingly the variation here is that it's two devils pulling souls that are roped together (and are they in a huge sack? Actually I don't think so, but it almost looks like that and it would make sense - the local depiction of Krampus tends to show him with a sack, not a basket).

On the bottom righthand corner of this page you can see the whole piece (not a very wonderful photo though, I will see if I have more).
http://old.hrad.cz/castle/svvit_uk.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Vitus_Cathedral

 

[le pendu]

This is from a mosaic beside what was the main door of Prague's St Vitus Cathedral (it's now a side door and not always in use). I just love the demon leaning right into the coffin - and presumably hauling some poor soul out.

Interestingly the variation here is that it's two devils pulling souls that are roped together (and are they in a huge sack? Actualy I don't think so, but it almost looks like that and it would make sense - the local depiction of Krampus tends to show him with a sack, not a basket).

On the bottom righthand corner of this page you can see the whole piece (not a very wonderful photo though, I will see if I have more).
http://old.hrad.cz/castle/svvit_uk.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St._Vitus_Cathedral

I'm not sure this is any better, but it is larger...
http://www.tarothistory.com/images/prague_devil01.jpg

I love the teeth on the devils.. great.

I wonder if that is Michael, and if he's okay with the poor souls being pulled off.. or whether he's about to cut the rope and save them?

You're right though.. the devil searching through the coffin/crypt is delightful!

 

[le pendu]

WOW!!!! That's really gorgeous Le Pendu. (Does it give one point up for the French Origin Theory??)

For me it does.. for whatever that's worth. And of course, I change my mind all the time as I learn more.

... but...

I do think this is interesting. I've been *guessing* that the TdM was probably created in Italy; and guessing that the Cary Sheet might be Swiss, German or such...

Now I wonder. *Maybe* the Cary Sheet is a French prototype, the TdM (without names and numbers) a "translation" of it for an early Italian market, and then the "TdM" as we know it a "translation" of the Italian back into French.. which is funny when you think that it goes back to Italy again later.

That's probably all too complicated and unlikely.

At least I don't "have" to think that the Cary Sheet devil means that the Cary Sheet isn't Italian or French. In fact, until I can find the same image elsewhere before 1500.. I'd say this tips the scales towards France a bit for the origin of the Cary sheet, for me personally. I wouldn't be surprised to see the same image show up in Italy and elsewhere in the period, but for now, only France has been found in my research.