Providing information beyond responses to questions...

[zorya]

I've found that I'm much more successful and materially blessed when profit isn't the goal in sharing my wisdom and expertise. It's been quite a paradox for me.

well said lyric! seems to me the more i allow to flow out, the more room there is for prosperity to flow in.

i think the more people that read, the more acceptable going to tarot readers becomes. the more people hear about tarot, the more they think there might be something in it, the more likely they are to go to a reader.

how much about the process i divulge depends upon who i am reading for.

i rarely mention the deck, because it doesn't seem to matter so much to me. i seldom go card by card, simply because that isn't how i read. i'm not terribly organized; i look at the big picture, or one card may speak to me first. i jump around and make connections all over the place.

but i don't mind talking about the process either, especially with other readers. i do include the spread in my email readings.

many of my clients either do read or have read the cards. some have a familiarity because they've had them read in the past.

pro readers return to me because they find my readings to be accurate, not because they are trying to steal my secrets. there really is nothing to steal.

many readers go to (other) professional readers because they don't feel they can be objective with their own important readings.

talking about the cards has only shown that i have a lot of experience. i have clearly studied the cards. others who read appear to like that in a reader.

it feel it can help them have confidence in me.

and when i get a 'flash' of info from 'somewhere else', i don't mind sharing that too.

i don't think learning too much about reading takes away the mystery. i started in the early 70's, and the cards still amaze and astound me!

 

[magpie9]

"I explain what I'm doing as I go along, because it is no great mystery. I want my clients to understand what I'm doing."

If they didn't know how it worked before you start explaining, then to me -- they would think it mysterious. And isn't it enough for seekers to just get their questions answered? I'm confused about the "teaching during a reading" part.

It depends how you look at it. to me, the teaching is a by-product. What I am trying to do is to get them to understand the reading enough that they can integrate it in their life to some degree. I practice "transformational tarot" where the emphases is on helping them to make changes they want in their lives, to take their own power and use it in ways that benefit them.

"I am being paid for my time, knowledge and skill,"[/qoute]

are you also being paid to share trade "secrets" or the telling of process?

I have taught tarot, and that is a different process than clearly explaining a reading. If I am using the golden Tarot and the page of Cups comes up in a sword heavy reading, and I want to make the point that this person needs to listen to their heart and instincts more, I can point out that the page is listening to the talking fish in the cup, and lo and behold, there on the card is the fish with his mouth open, in conversation with the page. It makes an impression on the seekers mind. And that's why I pointed it out--so that it would.
As for "trade secrets"--I guess I'm not a big believer in them, per se. How many of the people reading today--including readers of your generation--would be readers if those of us who went before--all the way back to the Golden Dawn and before, had kept our knowledge as a "trade secret"? This site and others like it would not exist. There would not be books or teachers to learn from, just muy mysterioso readers to go to, making pronouncements and predictions based on little bits of cardboard. How much impact on peoples lives is that? How much help to them are we, if that's where we stop?

I'm of the belief that frames of reference and value of skill change when someone knows what you are doing. At the same time, I am somewhat happy that more people are getting involved in Tarot as it makes what we do "legitimate" and takes away from the "scary" or "otherworldly" aspect: Everyone can do it!! Then again, I don't just do Tarot -- if I did I would be very worried in regards to the future and the work I do.

"I want to be more than a mysterious sybil to my clients. I'd rather be a role model of what application and practice can accomplish."

I hope I'm not being misunderstood. I do not believe that my clients should look at me in any which way other than a person who has skill, knowledge, and interest to answer their questions for their highest good and happiness using esoteric tools.

No mystery=No money

I'm in for a lot more than the money. And I think you are too.

This is the part I don't get: role model of application and practice -- why do your clients need to know how you do what you do? How does that make one a role model?

What makes me--and many other readers- a role model is that I have spent so very much time and energy and attention on the tarot. Tarot is what I've spent it on. For someone else, it could be Astrology or I Ching or Accounting or Law or Medicine. Anyone who spends their life studying and practicing one discipline, be it spiritual, material or intellectual is a role model because we have applied ourselves beyond the norm. And that is accessible to anyone willing to put the work in. And that's where role model coms in.

]"I'm glad to see new readers--they will ensure that tarot will not die out after I'm gone."

Everyone is a reader these days! Tarot is very very accessible to the point where there could be a devaluing of skill. As illustrated before, if someone thinks they can do it -- it shouldn't cost as much, even if a) they don't know how to do it and b) they don't do it. It just seems to be a universal principle or something.
There is money in mystery.

I haven't found that to be true. sure, they can go to their sister in law for a reading, but there goes confidentiality. There goes unbiased. And, most of the time, there goes a professional degree of skill. A free reading from a friend or relative-- or oneself--is just not the same thing as a professional reading, and people know it.

"These new readers are not all going to run right out and become competition for me."
"A few of them may, and so what? None of them will provide exactly what I do, just as I do not provide exactly what they do."

That's why.

. I mean, if one's nephew can whip up a site, why bother hiring someone to make a professional site for $1500.00 when Joey can do it for free!
Sure there is a case for doing it professionally but there are a ton of people who couldn't give a hoot, FREE speaks louder.

Again, that's why. Free only speaks louder where skill doesn't matter. Really.

 

[Apollonia]

I would think simply saying: "We are going to wash your hair, then cut, style, and blow dry" to be sufficient rather than saying, "I'm using the Salon Special method of cutting with the L'oreal brush and I arrived at this decision because you are a special lady -- want to see a picture of the shampoo packaging?" lol I'm exaggerating of course.

No fair, Abella, you made me laugh out loud! But I so want to go to that salon where they tell me I'm special!

Now you've caused me to ponder what I didn't consider previously, and I think you may be right, in that people often come up to my table at the shop and say, "Tarot? No thanks--I read for myself." And I'm sure there are a great deal many more of these than there used to be, and I think many of them would probably have gotten a reading if they didn't think they could read just fine for themselves. So I do think I probably lose a lot of trade due to everybody having a deck and a book.

Good thread--a lot to think about.

Blessings,
A

 

[abella]

Good thread thoughts... good thread thoughts...

I'm reading everyone's thoughts (excellent that they are) and might not respond to anything unless there is an assumption or an erroneous conclusion to clear up.

Also some responses seem to be a re-flow of what others have said and might not take into account what was said previously, therefore I'm going to leave responses there and go into this:

"There's Money in Mystery" is a mantra I created to start training my brain to realize that if I wanted my own business and didn't want to work minimum wage jobs, that I had to remember that if I gave away certain knowledge for free that it wasn't going to come back in monetary gain. Sure, people would love me for it, abundance would flow & I would feel great but the $'s were not going to rear their heads. In this case, the abundance principle wasn't working. ;-) The karma of good wasn't the lesson I needed to learn.

Oddly enough the mantra foreshadowed my full time professional entrance into Tarot reading: which is still full of mystery to many people although the mystery can be easily demystified.

If you want to read an authority figure suggesting the same idea that I have: "there's money in mystery" principle, the "Scarcity Principle by Dr. Robert B. Cialdini might wet your pallette.

In review of Cialdini's work, Máire A. Dugan has this to say: "According to the scarcity principle, people assign more value to opportunities when they are less available."

Therefore if readers are prolific then people won't pay as much or bother with the service. And although there can be differences between skilled and non skilled readers, it takes one unskilled reader to give the impression to one sitter that ALL readers are just as unskilled. (Of course if the sitter has logical leanings in their analysis that wouldn't be the case. I'm just making another exaggerated example).

When I came up with "There's money in mystery" I was a fledgling Web designer who realized that if people even "thought" they could do something, they were less likely to pay someone else to do it. A couple of years later I found Dr. Cialdini's work and felt "validated" with my analysis.

It's human nature that if someone thinks they can do something, why pay someone else to do it? Mind you there are people who break that rule -- especially if they have a ton of money to fly around. At that point it becomes a "luxury item".

And then in those cases, you may have the buyer judging every move you make -- especially if it isn't "traditional" or "conventional". The "distasteful to me" expectations part.

A couple of Dr. Robert B. Cialdini's other principles are: "like likes like" OR "liking" (ie choosing service providers that look like you) AND "social proof" OR "cattle mentality": If they like it, I'll like it (ie testimonials).

btw, my educational background is in business management and career/work counseling. I'm a weird twist of focusing on both business and people and I would very much like to connect with others who have successfully blended the two -- what many may consider in the spiritual world -- "extremes".

And please keep in mind my inital query/thought were these:

Why are readers teaching their clients during a reading? I still don't understand it because in this forum we are professionals trying to earn a living/income from reading, no? And does anyone think the teaching while reading method can affect the ability to generate a profit in the long term (short term profits will definately be gained)? I mean I would go for it -- getting taught and a reading for the same price -- the "two in one deal"!

 

[abella]

"Ok i'm not a professional tarot reader by any stretch of the imagination i've been reading for others and when I send a friends reading over the net I like to send them the cards, because I like to say "Ok I see this fish, he represents imagination, now in this position it means the time for fantasy is passing"

I think that's perfectly fine if you don't want to make a business out of what you are doing.

"now I don't feel that is revealing all my secrets"
It's revealing something they wouldn't of known before --i.e. the meaning of the cards. Then they go to the Internet, look it up and start learning how to read and questioning the reading.

Do I think it's "nice" for people to be kept in the dark? No, I don't. I think it's horrible and I wish this was Star Trek where none of us had to make money but that's a Utopian society that I don't live in but wish I did.

", because if someone was in front of me i'd tell them the same thing."
I wouldn't.

"It's not because i'm trying to teach them, it's because i want to give them some way to see what I am saying."
I appreciate that and it's "starting" to make more sense as to why people do that _but_ why do clients need to "see why you are saying that". My clients are coming to me because I'm a professional reader that knows what they are doing and so there isn't a "burden of proof". It sounds like there's a feeling of having to "prove" the validity of the response. Interesting if that's the case.

Personally I wish my clients would look at the cards more but then again I'm visual (and verbal). And ultimately they are not there to look at my pretty cards. *grin*

"I just want to touch on will atheletes teach you how to break a world record point.
I was involved in proffesional sport for a lot of my life, I can show you how to shoot a basketball perfectly, I can train you, I can get you to the point where physically you can do it, mentally you understand the proccess, you know the mechanics, you body remembers the movement like breathing - does that mean you will be able to do it in a game? no."

I disagree. If you are teaching another professional athlete or someone who has the makings of one, they just might need that "click" to push them over their personal best. Otherwise, how would I have learned a lot of what I have already learned. There will "always" be someone who can't learn the subject matter because they don't have time (patience) or interest (obsession).

"Just because you know how doesn't mean you can or will. Some will learn for themselves and never read proffesionally because of time, shyness, peer pressure. The cream always rises to the top, readers who don't know "when it's on" because they recite card definitions by rote will be weeded out."

Well yes but it can still lead to over-saturation and devaluation (less money paid for item).

"If we rely on the mystery to sell our trade then maybe we should all take acting classes as well, so we enhance the theatre of it all."

Oh I don't suggest we rely on mystery to sell our trade. I suggest we rely on integrity and quality (skill) but those are part of my values. As for the "acting classes" why do many on this thread relate mystery with acting? *interesting*

"fascinating discussion, looking forward to more input."
true true. My mind tends to pick dirty topics. ugh!

Namaste,
Abella

 

[abella]

""I want to share my wisdom but one of my lessons in life is to share this wisdom in profitable ways.""

"I've found that I'm much more successful and materially blessed when profit isn't the goal in sharing my wisdom and expertise. It's been quite a paradox for me."

It certainly isn't *my* goal so perhaps I have been grossly misleading people with my words! Another mantra I believe in is this: You will make money doing what you love.

However, I am running a business and do need to pay the bills (now and in the future) and this _is_ the professional forum. I dare not *ever* bring this topic up in any other forum.

 

[abella]

Apollonia,

I feel your balance; thank you for being you.

"No fair, Abella, you made me laugh out loud! But I so want to go to that salon where they tell me I'm special!"

Glad someone laughed instead of cursed! ;-)

"So I do think I probably lose a lot of trade due to everybody having a deck and a book."

Agreed.

Then again if you are the owner of the bookstore you have sold another book, deck, and a whole bunch of other things so if your business is selling metaphysical stuff I would believe it's in your "favour" to tell the world and demystify Tarot and all other things esoteric. As is with teachers and authors of metaphysics -- it's also in their best interest to expose what we do. But but but, is it in "our" best interest to expose what we do or is it okay to just "do what we do"?

"Good thread--a lot to think about."
I agree.

Namaste,
Abella

 

[Baroli]

Ok, I have read eveyone's replies and in answer to worrying about the industry, I know this will sound very jaded but so be it.

As long as there are people, who for lack of a better way to say it, "want to know the spooky stuff" and equate reading tarot cards with "Dark Shadows"(a daytime soap opera from the late 60's that dealt with the occult and it's influence on a particular family), there will always be a clientel.

Human beings are notorious for wanting the short cut, to be privy to salacious info. What better way than to have someone charge X amount of $$$ and to see if the boyfriend still loves me, will I be wealthy, healthy, and wise.

Ahhh well, such is life.


Baroli52

 

[Apollonia]

Abella, I have been doing this "teaching" so automatically I never even thought about why I do it, or whether I should. You've startled me into thinking about this in a way I hadn't before, so I thank you. I'm not the shop owner, and although I do have an interest in their staying in business so I have a place to hang my hat, you make an excellent point.

"It's not because i'm trying to teach them, it's because i want to give them some way to see what I am saying." I appreciate that and it's "starting" to make more sense as to why people do that _but_ why do clients need to "see why you are saying that". My clients are coming to me because I'm a professional reader that knows what they are doing and so there isn't a "burden of proof". It sounds like there's a feeling of having to "prove" the validity of the response. Interesting if that's the case.

I see myself in this statement, and, strangely for me, it doesn't make me mad, it makes me want to try a different approach in my readings and see what happens. I'm going to stop explaining myself so much and focus on just doing the reading instead of going so deep into why I'm saying what I'm saying. This should be interesting--and I actually feel it might make me a more confident reader.

Blessings,
A

 

[raheli]

I appreciate that and it's "starting" to make more sense as to why people do that _but_ why do clients need to "see why you are saying that". My clients are coming to me because I'm a professional reader that knows what they are doing and so there isn't a "burden of proof". It sounds like there's a feeling of having to "prove" the validity of the response. Interesting if that's the case.

i'm not doing from a feeling of needing to prove things I'm doing it as an aid to them rembering what I am telling them - not the definitions just the advice I want them to hear.
it's like flash cards and children - this is a cat - it makes a sound meow - whent he child sees a cat next time they associate meow with it.
(bad example I know)

I disagree. If you are teaching another professional athlete or someone who has the makings of one, they just might need that "click" to push them over their personal best. Otherwise, how would I have learned a lot of what I have already learned. There will "always" be someone who can't learn the subject matter because they don't have time (patience) or interest (obsession).

Ah but that's different if i'm teaching another proffesional athelete or someone with the makings of one chances are they already have the instinct - but not everyone who has a basketball and wants to play does have the instinct - my coach always said you can't teach instinct.
Not everyone who picks up the cards an be a good reader, a good business has repeat business, mediocre or poor readers most likely won't see repeat business.

I think everyone reads in differnet ways and to suggest they might change the way they read because they are worried people will steal their business is perhaps a bit extreme.

I really don't think showing people the cards and explaining the meanings is teaching someone to read tarot - i'm not of the school of thought that would say go buy a book you too can be a tarot reader becasue i DO believe there is instinct involved and a lot of people don't have it - if someone I read for expressed an interest in learning I would then talk about how they could learn.