Providing information beyond responses to questions...

[abella]

"Not everyone who picks up the cards an be a good reader, a good business has repeat business, mediocre or poor readers most likely won't see repeat business."

True, but I have to say I discourage repeat business and tend to give the reading my all but even then I have started rethinking that as I give away way too much in a short period of time that they really don't need to come back in any short time (before 6 months) and if they do, the reading is always short as the same stuff usually resurfaces. And I experience deja vu. I also don't like referrals... I get them and I don't like them either -- eh, another post.

"I think everyone reads in differnet ways and to suggest they might change the way they read because they are worried people will steal their business is perhaps a bit extreme."

Well, I understood people would think I was being extreme and I decided to post anyway. I'm not sure I'm suggesting people do things differently what I am suggesting is that what is being down could be affecting the industry down the road AND I am suggesting that people take a good look at their business.

I do this full-time and it's my sole income so maybe I have a different pair of glasses that I'm seeing the world through. I also tend to be a visionary -- looking way into the future so I don't know. While I think people see it as extreme, I see it as a possible future. And what will really be extreme, is that if that possible future becomes a reality.

Should people worry? I think people should think. I suggest people think.

I would like to think I'm beyond what appears to be a petty idea of worrying about someone "stealing" my business. That's not what I'm thinking about. I'm looking at a big picture. I see a lot of the statements coming back to self but actually I'm asking people to think of others.

"I really don't think showing people the cards and explaining the meanings is teaching someone to read tarot"

Not in a classical sense, I agree. But we learn by what we see as much as what someone tells us. I think of some of the people I read for and how they keep referring to another reader's methods and interpretations and it's really annoying. Focus on "this" reading please.

To note again: I was wondering why people all these things together: 1) show their layouts; 2) show the cards; 3) say what each card means and in each position.

I wanted to know why people were doing that. I have a few different answers now that make sense. Because I wasn't/am not doing that I really couldn't understand so I asked. I also didn't think that was good for the industry in the future but of course that's my opinion.

" - i'm not of the school of thought that would say go buy a book you too can be a tarot reader becasue i DO believe there is instinct involved and a lot of people don't have it - if someone I read for expressed an interest in learning I would then talk about how they could learn."

True but haven't you seen readers who sell readings for $3.00? It's easy to pick up a book, learn a bit and charge $10.00. That doesn't mean you will be good at it and you may even be telling people that readers aren't really worth that much (which is part of the devaluing process) but hey, I might as well try. And hey, while I'm learning I can get someone to pay me a few bucks.

While we all need to start somewhere, I do believe it's possible to learn Tarot in a short period of time and then hang a professional sign on the door. I have seen a ton of people do it.

So there is preaching to the converted -- I totally hear, agree, and understand what you are saying but that doesn't change what I'm saying. Perhaps I'm not communicating it very well... most likely. gah!.

 

[abella]

"Abella, I have been doing this "teaching" so automatically I never even thought about why I do it, or whether I should. You've startled me into thinking about this in a way I hadn't before, so I thank you."

Thank you for having an open mind. You may decide that the teaching part is just the way you do things and hey, it might be a good marketing offering as well (we are, afterall, doing this professionally ;-) It's good to know why we do what we do and then if it's suits one, to advertise or way of being.

"I'm not the shop owner, and although I do have an interest in their staying in business so I have a place to hang my hat, you make an excellent point."

Right, running a business is an art -- one I haven't personally mastered yet but I continue to work at. Reading is my soul, it's my gift to others. Making money while offering my gift is an awesome treat!

"I see myself in this statement, and, strangely for me, it doesn't make me mad, it makes me want to try a different approach in my readings and see what happens. I'm going to stop explaining myself so much and focus on just doing the reading instead of going so deep into why I'm saying what I'm saying. This should be interesting--and I actually feel it might make me a more confident reader."

Yeah, I didn't get the feeling that you were the "mad" type. What sign are you? You are taking my "strength of conviction" quite well. Kudos too you! ;-)

There is a certain level of confidence that my clients like. I'm forward, direct, and not wishy-washy. I'm also sure to tell them they can take whatever road they wish but they are paying me to tell them the roads I see, therefore I'm happy to say what those are.

Thankfully, most of the people I see are powerful women -- I would say even stronger of will than I. I like that. I like that a lot.

I still point out certain cards because I'm personally dumbfounded by the accuracy and intensity but I don't go into detail about my methods, the process, why I came to a conclusion or any of that. I'm not there to prove anything to them. I used to while I was learning a long time ago but these days it's like brushing teeth.

Let me know how your experiment goes. *grin*

Anyway, thanks again for hearing me out and re-considering where you are at even if you do decide in the future otherwise.

I learned a lot from this thread and it gets me off the "but why??" line of thinking. I'm fairly certain I have enough "why's" to keep me in check.

 

[abella]

Part 1

"It depends how you look at it. to me, the teaching is a by-product. What I am trying to do is to get them to understand the reading enough that they can integrate it in their life to some degree. I practice "transformational tarot" where the emphases is on helping them to make changes they want in their lives, to take their own power and use it in ways that benefit them."

I see. Right. I guess that's what I do too -- transformational tarot. I haven't heard of that before but that makes sense. I have a coaching approach to Tarot but use counselling and consulting techniques too.

"I have taught tarot, and that is a different process than clearly explaining a reading."

If teaching Tarot is one's business, then I believe that one would want to clearly explain everything. I guess I'm still having "some" trouble with why readers explain the process and packaging rather than focusing on the reading itself and what it can do for the querant. But this thread is shedding some light on that subject area.

"If I am using the golden Tarot and the page of Cups comes up in a sword heavy reading, and I want to make the point that this person needs to listen to their heart and instincts more, I can point out that the page is listening to the talking fish in the cup, and lo and behold, there on the card is the fish with his mouth open, in conversation with the page. It makes an impression on the seekers mind. And that's why I pointed it out--so that it would."

I do that too. I think one-off "take a look at this" are fine. It's the detailed,for the whole reading that I'm having/had trouble understanding.

 

[abella]

Part 2

"As for "trade secrets"--I guess I'm not a big believer in them, per se."
I hear ya. I wasn't before but I'm guarding hard earned knowledge. Common knowledge and knowledge that helps the seekers get better readings and reciprocal learning exchanges amonst professionals is fine for me to express. Anything that is little known is shared with few people.

"How many of the people reading today--including readers of your generation--would be readers if those of us who went before--all the way back to the Golden Dawn and before, had kept our knowledge as a "trade secret"?"

People learn. People learned. If someone is a) gifted (meant to know it and will know it) and/or b) hard workers -- going out of their way to travel for learning or being involved in a smaller community of people -- they will do it. How did you get involved and learned? I believe people who have enough time and interest, will learn "anything" it is that they want too.
It just meant less people doing it.

I do believe we are still "okay" and not at a maturity point in the business life cycle but it could happen and I'm looking at reasons why it might. At the same time, I'm already expanding my practice to involve more aspects -- that's just a part of marketing and survival.

The cream will rise; the slough will fall off, but will it be too late?

And the question I ask myself is this: But isn't this _good_ for the industry? If more people know about it, then there will be more people asking for it. I'm 50/50 on that. I believe it's a "yes" as long as the cycle doesn't go into maturity/oversaturation.

"This site and others like it would not exist. There would not be books or teachers to learn from"
I disagree. There were always back rooms and closets. (see Jesus & the fishy symbol, Dion Fortune, Israel Regardie, etc. etc.).

", just muy mysterioso readers to go to, making pronouncements and predictions based on little bits of cardboard."

Well, that wouldn't feel safe I guess. And humans are naturally curious folks.

 

[abella]

Part 3

"I'm in it for a lot more than the money. And I think you are too. "
Agreed.

"What makes me--and many other readers- a role model is that I have spent so very much time and energy and attention on the tarot. Tarot is what I've spent it on."
Okay, understand now. True.

"For someone else, it could be Astrology or I Ching or Accounting or Law or Medicine. Anyone who spends their life studying and practicing one discipline, be it spiritual, material or intellectual is a role model because we have applied ourselves beyond the norm."
Right. But then do the non Tarot professionals -- accountants, lawyers, and medical professionals -- go into the details of their methods and processes with each and every client/patient? Web designers did and look where that got them.

"And that is accessible to anyone willing to put the work in. And that's where role model coms in."
Right.

"I haven't found that to be true. sure, they can go to their sister in law for a reading, but there goes confidentiality. There goes unbiased. And, most of the time, there goes a professional degree of skill. A free reading from a friend or relative-- or oneself--is just not the same thing as a professional reading, and people know it."

Well I totally agree with you there. Unfortunately there might come a time where our skill will be devalued because of oversatuation and everyone knowing how to do it or the opportunity of knowing how to do it in a heartbeat. i.e. I can teach someone how to read Tarot in 3 hours and professionally in 6 and I won't do it. There's a very very fast method and one of my gifts is being highly analytical and efficient so that's something I could offer but I only offer it to few because if I could easily churn out hundreds of professional readers within weeks and that's a scary thought.
(not that I'm trying to scare anyone like I scare myself -- 4 planets
in Virgo (including Mercury)) I just want people to take a look at it and
think about it. Ultimately we all do what we want to do -- that's what we are given as humans -- freewill.

"That's why."
Thanks for taking the time to help me understand.

"Free only speaks louder where skill doesn't matter."
I wish that were true in my viewfinder but I don't see that as being true for the industries I have seen go down the kitchen sink.

One day people may not value the skill of Tarot reading and therefore free starts to look mighty appetizing.

Namaste,
Abella

 

[abella]

Part 4 (sorry, the forum didn't seem to like how long my message was... or something like that. Kept getting errors so I put it in parts)

"How much impact on peoples lives is that? How much help to them are we, if that's where we stop? "

Do they really need to know the details or do they need to know what the reader sees? Do we really need to learn about a process or method in order to benefit from it (I do... maybe you do -- but we are teachers & students!).

For readings, I stick to reading and for teaching, I stick to workshops.

 

[Apollonia]

Yeah, I didn't get the feeling that you were the "mad" type. What sign are you? You are taking my "strength of conviction" quite well. Kudos too you! ;-)

I'm a Libra, with Leo rising and my Moon in Pisces.

 

[abella]

I'm a Libra, with Leo rising and my Moon in Pisces.

That more than likely explains it! lol (Me Leo sun, Virgo in Moon, Mercury, Venus, & Pluto, Jupiter in Libra, & Capricorn rising and wonderfully blessed with Pisces hubby). *grin*

I believe I come across as extreme and confrontational (amongst some other negative traits/labels) when I actually don't feel that way. How annoying! lol It seems to appear moreso on-line (I guess I tend to choose less than popular topics and responses but it isn't done on purpose) but that doesn't stop me from posting.

So I wonder: Which planet(s) is/are responsible, dammit?!!! lol

In person, it's a totally other ball of wax.

Nice to meet you btw.

 

[Apollonia]

I did it, and I'm glad!

Hi, Abella! Just wanted to say that I went to my reading room this past weekend determined to try to let my clients enjoy a bit more of the mystery of the Tarot. I read for six clients, all new. I did much less explaining of how I came to my conclusions for each card, what I saw that made me think this or that--and I LOVED it! The readings went very smoothly, I had more time for the important stuff, and the clients were happy with their readings.

Thank you, Abella!

Blessings,
A

 

[SunChariot]

I know when I do a reading for someone online, which is the only way I read for others. I certainly always include images of the cards that came up. I think that's only fair as if it were a reading in person the querent would certainly see the cards that came up.

I am about to go professional and get a site where I can read online. I was thinking of having a list of potential spreads and potential decks that I could use, with explanations of which is best for what and letting the client decide...which draws him. Of course giving the querent a choice of spreads makes sense to me as I would likely charge more for the more complex and time-consuming ones.

No, I don't think that letting the client have a hand in these things makes us unnecessary in any way. Tarot is a skill that takes a relatively long time to learn. Knowing about spreads, decks....does not make someone a reader. There is much that needs to be studied first. And and intuition that grows in the reader the more it is used.

What all the explanations may well do is to demysify Tarot somewhat. I have found that most people in my life who know nothing about it, are quite frightened of it. I think it is always a good thing to do what we can to dispell that whenever we can.

Although, no I would not explain how I arrived at the info or conclusions of the reading. I think that would make me sound unsure of myself, like I needed verification in some way. That doesn;t feel professional to me. I would only do that in a reading exchange here.