The Lovers as feelings toward someone??

[SunChariot]

The point is, I fail to understand what you expect from tarot cards-or maybe I understand that very well, thinking back on what I was like about 20 year ago....
I think you understand very well what that card means-and why doesn't he phone you ? I think you said you're the one who broke up with him-why exactly are you expecting him to phone ? He probably thinks you're not attracted/in love/interested/spiritually involved or whatever with him any more....just pick up the bloody phone, since you obviously ARE....We're not in the eighteenth century-thank god. Women don't need to wait for the Male to make the first move.....and, above all, they are actually EXPECTED to make the first move if they are interested....
You don't need the Cabbalah to tell you that.

Good Luck !

Auntie Beatrice

This struck me as very very good advice. And it does make sense that if you where the one who terminated things that the other person would not expect you to want them back. No one likes rejection and he would like expect that to be the case if he tried.

In effect none of us knows why he isn't calling. The cards can tell you, but why not ask the one person in the world who actually DOES know for sure, him. Yeah, it may take some courage but is the most likely thing to get you the best results. If talking with him can't then nothing will. (nothing wrong here with asking the cards what you can say when you talk of how to phrase things to get the best results though)

Also if this other person IS still single and thinks that you don't want them, you can't expect them to say alone forever, unless you stop in and tell them otherwise (that you are still interested). The longer you wait to talk, the more likely they will not be available or free when you do contact them.

I see it this way too. If you were the one who ended it and then you changed your mind, that puts the ball in your court. If it feels hard to do on your part, imagine how it would feel on his part as he has already felt your rejection, so it is natural for him to fear it happening again. I would say that puts the ball in your court. If you ended it, he does not know you changed your mind. Only you know that. Time to tell him, if he is worth the effort for you and he seems to be.

Think out what you want for sure, then go for it. But don't wait too long or there could be consequences in letting too much time pass before you talk. The cards can't change your life for you. They can tell you the best ways to change your life, but then you have to do the leg work.

Babs

 

[novenovembre]

The cards can't change your life for you.

THE CARDS CAN'T CHANGE YOUR LIFE FOR YOU.

So true. That sums it up, I think. I have a client-I've known her for years...-I tell her that every single time I see her. She just won't get the message. Incredible how many people believe that tarot is some kind of magic that, for better or for worse, has the power to make things happen for you, or tell you what to do to become rich, happy, and enlightened at the same time....or to make that person fall in love with you. And tarot can't tell you what to do either, though it can help you understand that.
Tarot is not magic, red, black or white. It's just a torch that sheds a bit of light on our path, I think....

 

[Richard]

The point is, I fail to understand what you expect from tarot cards-or maybe I understand that very well, thinking back on what I was like about 20 year ago....
I think you understand very well what that card means-and why doesn't he phone you ? I think you said you're the one who broke up with him-why exactly are you expecting him to phone ? He probably thinks you're not attracted/in love/interested/spiritually involved or whatever with him any more....just pick up the bloody phone, since you obviously ARE....We're not in the eighteenth century-thank god. Women don't need to wait for the Male to make the first move.....and, above all, they are actually EXPECTED to make the first move if they are interested....
You don't need the Cabbalah to tell you that.......

You don't even need a Tarot card to tell you that.

FYI:

Qabalah is not a body of knowledge, it is a method of thinking.

 

[novenovembre]

You don't even need a Tarot card to tell you that.

FYI:

Well yeah, that goes without saying....

 

[2dogs]

Well, Chiriku, LRichard, and everybody else....it's a really interesting debate, but for me, that interpretation of the Lovers that I use never failed, so I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree......

Given that the cards drawn are influenced by the question in one's mind, do you think the interpretations already present in one's mind also affect the outcome? And other decisions that one has made about the method of interpretation such as particular books to be consulted?

 

[SunChariot]

Given that the cards drawn are influenced by the question in one's mind, do you think the interpretations already present in one's mind also affect the outcome? And other decisions that one has made about the method of interpretation such as particular books to be consulted?

What I believe is that we all have different slants on what each card means to us. And the powers that be that send the answer us through the cards (whatever you feel those are) understands this and sends us the cards that will correspond our usual meanings for the cards.

For example if to person A The Lovers means love and to person B it means having to make a choice or a decision. If the intended answer was love, person B would NOT get The Lovers to give them that message if the card does not that meaning to them. THEY would get whichever card meant love to them. EG maybe the 2 of Cups.

Or if the answer was about having to make a choice and person A, did not have that meaning for the card they would not get The Lovers to tell them what but whichever card meant that to them instead.

That is why I personally it makes no sense to me to ask what a card meant in a reading. Since we all have different slants on each card. The card meant exactly what it means to the person who did the reading. No more, no less. None of us here can know what that is. And no one else can know what their meaning is but them.

You can't take someone else's meanings for the card and try to mold it onto the question, the card meant what the personal meaning is for the reader. Nothing more nothing less, only the reader can have a clue what that was. No one else's meanings play into that.

those are my beliefs anyway,. Not so much that the personal meanings of the reader will affect the outcome, but they will directly decide which cards come up. Different readers intended to get the same message would likely get different cards to get to that message,

 

[novenovembre]

Given that the cards drawn are influenced by the question in one's mind, do you think the interpretations already present in one's mind also affect the outcome? And other decisions that one has made about the method of interpretation such as particular books to be consulted?

That's an interesting question, I asked myself that many times, the last time was precisely on the occasion of this debate. I guess I agree with Chiniuk there, when he said that in theory, we could even make up our own system of symbols, and, as long as it was consistent with itself, it would work....I am aware, of course, that one of the reasons why tarot works is that it carries a whole backgroud of archetypes, symbolic images, mythological meanings, and so on, and I don't believe that we can ignore it or bystep it completely when reading, of course, but I've met many readers who attached different meanings to the cards, and in the end the result was good in most cases....(it was "as good as the diviner", like tarotbear put it somewhere...) so, "as long as it works", (or "whatever works", to quote Woody Allen....funny how I thought of a brilliant guy who believes that fortune-telling, clairvoyance and all this stuff is CRAP....again, agree to disagree....)....
But, to answer your question specifically, yes, I do think that if that's how we have learnt to interpret a card (in my case, the lovers as sex as well as love), always felt attuned to that particular interpretation, and verified "empirically" that it works, in other words, if that's what a card means to us, when WE get it it will mean that. And if you think it means spiritual love or choice, then that's what it will mean when you get it.
And as long as we use our "emotional intelligence" (as Chiniuk beautifully put it) and are connected to that Big Thing Out There that holds all the Knowledge and Truth (?) that we draw from, then it will work.....

 

[novenovembre]

Ps

Of Course, that doesn't mean that maybe one day, in one particular reading, I won't get the Lovers and there it will make sense to read it as choice or spiritual love....I like to believe that I'll instinctively know, then....it's important to keep an open mind.

 

[gregory]

But wouldn't you agree that sexual attraction is a huge part of falling in love ? Can you fall in love with someone (a human, not a cat) you are not attracted to sexually ?

Of course you can. Even to the extent of wanting to marry them and spend the rest of your lives together doing everything - except sex. Have you never heard of asexual people - they are now believed to form about 10% of humans. A section of the population until recently kind of unrecognised, as so many people cannot accept that such a thing is possible.

And I'm with LRichard - Adam and Eve in that card are not sexual in the very least - nor are most Lovers cards. Love is many faceted. 2 cups is more about being IN love. And even there, it isn't a for sure thing.

 

[nisaba]

Can you fall in love with someone (a human, not a cat) you are not attracted to sexually ?

Yep. I've done it. All that happens is that in the light of the person's overall wonderfulness, their repellent body becomes a non-issue.