Thoth Through A Klaiedescope Lens

[Rosanne]

It is also very odd to have a 'wall' if it serves no purpose - unless it's meant to represent the upper horizontal 'path' from Hod to Netzach. So maybe it 'aint a wall.

One of things that I did not mention, from my visual notes- is the benben -the Mound of Nun. In Egypt this mound or beginning Island of the Nile is seen in hieroglyphics as an upside down steam pudding pot - but is in ceramics and metal a pyramid and in or on altars has a collar around it called a Menet.
http://www.egyptianmyths.net/menet.htm
There is a photo of a fresco.....
I have no idea if Harris went to Egypt.
I do not figure fairies and I never have, apart from the earlier Victorian obsession with them. Seems so out of place for this deck.

It's just struck me now; With such ingenuity and artistic talent why didn't they create images especially for the aspects of the Tree. Why put in all that work to adapt and alter the existing tarot whilst trying to retain its' recognisable imagery (mind-bending!), when custom designed flash cards would probably have been a better way to go.

I am thinking that Crowley has a specific agenda with this deck that only includes ToL and Kabala and astrology as part of his ritual of the Egyptian variety. It seems to me like all these mixed universal spirituality thingyies bit of Roman,Greece,Crystal,pendulums,Runes all in one bag. Sort of like Baha'i faith -all in the mix- but the underlying theme is Egyptian- just as the RWS is Camelot and Christian and Astrological. Temple rites.
So it is not solely the Tree and apart from some clues I know about now- I would never have picked this as a Kabala based system.
Kind of like making a I Ching Tarot deck with dress ups.

Debra you have just said what my daughter said in another way.
She said that maybe each card is a blow up of part of a larger tableau and this Sun is indeed that which springs forth from the the Magus. I reckon it's the fools Helmet myself in that view. If you look at the skill Harris had with some Sacred Geometry that is indeed a connection between the cards.
Must try and find that book- sounds a good read especially if mentions Visconti. Don't go giving your Thoth away- I need a visual person like you here. It is hard to look at these cards with the same innocence pre the internet and this forum.

~Rosanne

 

[Debra]

The problem is that not only do I not know anything about astrology, I think it's hooey.

Bea, to answer your question I'll have to read more carefully the part of this interesting book that my eye slid over...that might take a while but I promise to do it.

 

[Bernice]

The Menet. Extract:
The type of necklace depicted in the hieroglyph does not appear to have been common until the New Kingdom.
.......<snip> ........
In images such as these, the menet appears to have been associated with such concepts of life, potency, fertility, birth and renewal.

Cheers Rosanne. This would make more sense in light of Crowleys 'egyptian' leanings. Although "concepts of life, potency, fertility, birth and renewal." might also be aligned with other areas of the Tree.

Rosanne: I am thinking that Crowley has a specific agenda with this deck that only includes ToL and Kabala and astrology as part of his ritual of the Egyptian variety. It seems to me like all these mixed universal spirituality thingyies bit of Roman, Greece, Crystal, pendulums, Runes all in one bag. Sort of like Baha'i faith -all in the mix- but the underlying theme is Egyptian- just as the RWS is Camelot and Christian and Astrological. Temple rites.
So it is not solely the Tree and apart from some clues I know about now - I would never have picked this as a Kabala based system.
Kind of like making a I Ching Tarot deck with dress ups.

Thing is, apparently anything and everything can be put on the Tree - pots, pans and polar bears - this practise is meant to prove/confirm that it (the Tree) encompasses and contains the entire dimensions of Existence. So the 'mixed bag' is really the attempt to align all levels of human 'understanding' (tongue in cheek) and perception within its' structure.

But.....you have some clues that you now know about, which may shed light on Crowleys real purpose of the Thoth deck. Thinking about Mr C, I wouldn't be at all surprised!

Debra: My observation was just a cursory one. There are 12 signs all told, but counting from Cancer to Capricorn only half the signs are covered. I'll try and think it through from some other viewpoint.


Bee

 

[Bernice]

Later:

Although I am preferring to look at the artwork of these cards to see what it may convey to me, I decided to look in The Book of Thoth to see what it says about the green hill with the 'whatever' encirling the top of it.

Surprise.
In heraldic language the card image represents "the Sun, charged with a rose, on a mount vert". This being the Coat of Arms of the family of A.Crowley.

http://www.myfamilysilver.com/crestFinder/crestDetails.aspx?id=142684&searchName=Crowley


However, I also came across this explanation for the 'family' Coat of Arms.
http://genealogy.about.com/od/heraldry/qt/coats_of_arms.htm


Bee

 

[Maskelyne]

It is also very odd to have a 'wall' if it serves no purpose

These ascended children have access, but not everyone has wings.

It's just struck me now; With such ingenuity and artistic talent why didn't they create images especially for the aspects of the Tree. Why put in all that work to adapt and alter the existing tarot whilst trying to retain its' recognisable imagery (mind-bending!), when custom designed flash cards would probably have been a better way to go.

Part of Crowley's premise was that the Tarot was, whether by design or natural correspondence, aligned with the Qabalah and other occult traditions. It makes sense to me that he would therefore keep the traditional imagery, adding his own elucidations to illustrate those connections. Plus it seems to me his overall system was highly syncretic and not solely Qabalah-based.

Something I'm missing here. If you enter life at Cancer, then leave it at Capricorn, you will only have lived through half of the zodiac. See? What am I not grasping? However, the 'Cancer/gate into life' certainly looks to be obvious in this card.

I'm not familiar with that myth, though Cancer is associated with the mother. There was also a traditional ladder of paired signs, starting with Cancer (Moon) and Leo (Sun). All the subsequent pairs are ruled by the one of the five traditional planets: Gemini-Virgo (Mercury), Taurus-Libra (Venus), Aries-Scorpio (Mars), Pisces-Sagittarius (Jupiter), and ending with Aquarius-Capricorn (Saturn). This sequence was also associated with the ages of man, from conception and birth, through child, youth, warrior, lord, and old man. Saturn, being the outermost and slowest planet was the lord of time and as such associated with old age and the end of life, among other things.

 

[Rosanne]

Thanks Bee.

This being the Coat of Arms of the family of A.Crowley.

Now I know this I would imagine this card in a totally different perspective.

The Lord of the Fire of the World
Heru-ra-ha

Crowley.
So it is a Menet collar given to the King, who emancipates the Human race.
I would have thought the Aeon was charged with this.
So it comes down to everyone a Star but some are bigger Stars or leading Stars.
Crowley obviously would agree.
Using the devices in the Visconti according to family is one thing- this is something else.


I have no idea what to say about this.
Thank you everyone for your imput to this thread.
I am done.
~Rosanne

 

[Bernice]

Maskelyne: This (-zodiac-) sequence was also associated with the ages of man, from conception and birth, through child, youth, warrior, lord, and old man...

Thank you for that Maskelyne, I can see that the Moon can = Birth and Saturn can = Death.
I cannot think why John Shephard didn't clearly state that he was referring to planetry rulerships. I do wish people would speak plainly.

Rosanne: Crowley:
So it is a Menet collar given to the King, who emancipates the Human race.
I would have thought the Aeon was charged with this.
So it comes down to everyone a Star but some are bigger Stars or leading Stars.
Crowley obviously would agree.

Using the devices in the Visconti according to family is one thing- this is something else.


I have no idea what to say about this.
Thank you everyone for your imput to this thread.
I am done.

I'm now considering that the Thoth deck is far more than an Crowley-version occult deck. It is perhaps a Crowley Deck pure & simple - just happens to be an occult one because he was an occultist.


Bee

eta:

Maskelyne:Plus it seems to me his overall system was highly syncretic and not solely Qabalah-based.

This is not dissimilar to what Rosanne said, "I am thinking that Crowley has a specific agenda with this deck that only includes ToL and Kabala and astrology as part of his ritual of the Egyptian variety.".

The possibility that the whole system may be one mans opinion based on his view of occult subjects.which were altered to fit.......

 

[Abrac]

The wall represents a dividing line between the "pioneers of the new aeon" as Crowley puts it, and the rest of mankind below, who dance blissfully in the "light" that pours down from above. It's akin to the "abyss" on the Tree of Life and is there to prevent the "unworthy" from entering.

"Largely owing to their own intransigence (stubbornness), those people (those who insist upon retaining traditonal values) have been born under a different spiritual law; they find themselves not only persecuted by their ancestors, but bewildered by their own uncertainty of foothold. It must be the task of the pioneers of the new Aeon to put this right. -Crowley, The Book of Thoth; The Sun (Emphasis added)

This idea of "pioneers putting things right" is distinctly contrary to the popular idea that the new aeon is simply the result of a natural evolution, of which Aiwass was only a messanger.

 

[Aeon418]

The wall represents a dividing line between the "pioneers of the new aeon" as Crowley puts it, and the rest of mankind below, who dance blissfully in the "light" that pours down from above.

It's a nipple. Turn the card onto it's right hand side to see Isis suckling Horus.

Drink the Milk of the Stars, or refuse the teat?

 

[Always Wondering]

This idea of "pioneers putting things right" is distinctly contrary to the popular idea that the new aeon is simply the result of a natural evolution, of which Aiwass was only a messanger.

Change is natural, and hard for many, including me. Somebody had to go first, and I am glad they did.

AW